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Star Wars vs Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and Battlestar Galactica
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Star Wars vs Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and Battlestar Galactica

NO OMNIPOTENTS/NEAR OMNIPOTENTS

This is all of the universes in their entire history.

Who wins?


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Old Post Nov 8th, 2009 10:36 PM
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battlestar and LOTR get crushed. battlestar because their fleets suck and LOTR cos they can't stop shit hitting them from orbit.

after that? Star Trek, but not easily imo.


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Old Post Nov 9th, 2009 10:39 AM
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doan_m
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Star Wars of course. Considering its size, military and technology first. Generally speaking but unless asked, I won't go into specifics.


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Old Post Nov 9th, 2009 04:42 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
battlestar and LOTR get crushed. battlestar because their fleets suck and LOTR cos they can't stop shit hitting them from orbit.

after that? Star Trek, but not easily imo.


How does Star Trek win?

I mean, Star Wars has FAR superior weapons and overall superior technology.


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Old Post Nov 9th, 2009 08:36 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
How does Star Trek win?

I mean, Star Wars has FAR superior weapons and overall superior technology.


It really doesn't.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f103/t499313.html

Read that thread in its entirety to see why Star Wars is far inferior in terms of technology.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 12:50 AM
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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 02:49 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by doan_m
^I prefer this version myself:

http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html


Hmm..."stardestroyer.net"...I wonder if there's any bias in there at all?


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:34 AM
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Not to mention with this 1st few sentences they limit it to "empire vs federation"...Given thaat the empire run their entire galaxy compared with the federations's non war making tiny fraction of their galaxy it's a bit pointless.

If you want to include ST's more aggressive species...the Borg and the Dominion/Jem Hadar then it's far more balanced.

We take it from there. The Borg have far greater numbers....Stated as "billions of vessels containing trillions of drones" which is just the central nexus and doesn't include borg vessels outwith that small area. So potentiall hundreds of trillions of drones and hundreds of billions of ships. Compare that with what's known about SW. Han says that it would take a thousand stardestroyers to cause the same damage that the death star caused. Implying that the empire doesn't have a thousand star destroyers. Take the events after epVI whereby in the Thrawn trilogy, just 500 old republic cruisers of the Katana fleet would swing the balance of power in the galaxy.

Given that each Borg cube is large and more powerful than a standard stardestroyer...Then you have an empire that is outnumbered and outgunned by huge degrees.

The Jem Hadar have similar numbers and are a far more aggressive race. Artificially bred solely for war. They have personal cloaking builit into their biology. They require no sleep, no rest, no food...They can fight continuously. They can also be artificially made to fighting level in 3 days.

ST has ablative armour technology which disapates energy based weapons rendering them useless. SW relies solely on energy based weapons.

In terms of weaponry, I showed, by canon sources, how a single photon torpedo is some 20+ times more powerful than the most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated on earth...the "tsar bomba". SW vessels have nothing as powerful.

We've shown in the thread that ST ships are more manueverable at sub light speeds....We've shown they have a larger range (10 fold) than SW ships. We've shown that while hyperdrive is faster than warp drive....transwarp is WAY faster than hyperdrive.

So please. Do read the thread and try and counter the points made in it.

Namely phased weapons, cloaking, adaptation (by the Borg), number of troops/vessels based on canon sources. The fact that a phaser can disintegrate a person yet a standard blaster has been shown to hit main characters and cause little injury. (Leia getting shot in the arm)

Face it. ST just has a far longer period and far more material to draw on. Its EU sources are just as large as SW but it's primary canon sources are far greater. hundreds of hours of shows with which to have written and shown far superior technology.

One piece of technology alone gives that ST armies a huge advantage...transporters.

So no...Your link is desperately trying to pull a win out the bag for SW by not including everything the ST galaxy has.

http://www.st-v-sw.net/

Try that site instead.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:55 AM
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doan_m
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
Hmm..."stardestroyer.net"...I wonder if there's any bias in there at all?

The author of the page did say that all he did was pulled out figures from Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections (SW2ICS) and the Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual (TNG TM).


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 12:16 PM
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jaden101
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So you're not going to counter the points then?

Didn't think so.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 12:49 PM
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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 07:36 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
It really doesn't.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f103/t499313.html

Read that thread in its entirety to see why Star Wars is far inferior in terms of technology.


Um, no offense, but do you really expect me to read ALL of that? Maybe just retell the evidence?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
Hmm..."stardestroyer.net"...I wonder if there's any bias in there at all?


Of course it's biased, but then again so, it is likely, are you. Does that mean that what you're saying is wrong? No! It can be "biased" and still right.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 09:53 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Of course it's biased, but then again so, it is likely, are you. Does that mean that what you're saying is wrong? No! It can be "biased" and still right.


Difference is, he weighed out ST and SW equally, ie he didn't cherry-pick certain things that favoured SW and certain things that didn't favour ST and then compare those.

Universe to universe, tech to tech, ST destroys SW.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:00 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Difference is, he weighed out ST and SW equally, ie he didn't cherry-pick certain things that favoured SW and certain things that didn't favour ST and then compare those.

Universe to universe, tech to tech, ST destroys SW.


Proof? Not saying that you're wrong, just asking...I mean, those numbers on the link are RIDICOULOUSLY in favor of SW...


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:12 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Um, no offense, but do you really expect me to read ALL of that? Maybe just retell the evidence?



Yes, I do expect you to actually read the facts before spouting your opinion. I'm actually trying to help you from looking a complete idiot which is something you are prone to do on a regular basis on these boards.

Oddly enough though, I've already summerised a tiny bit of the evidence against your opinion and you didn't even bother to read that.

quote:
Of course it's biased, but then again so, it is likely, are you. Does that mean that what you're saying is wrong? No! It can be "biased" and still right.


I actually prefer SW over ST. I just happen to know both at a reasonably high level and can make objective opinions. So stop making baseless assumptions and actually find out the facts before making retarded 1 line posts that are nothing more than "Star Wars is best" with no actual evidence to back up your opinion.

The reality is if you'd bothered to look into both, you'd realise SW is vastly outnumbered and have greatly inferior technology.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:44 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Proof? Not saying that you're wrong, just asking...I mean, those numbers on the link are RIDICOULOUSLY in favor of SW...


Already pointed out, but here: http://www.st-v-sw.net/

The Borg would sodomize and assimilate the entire SW universe, by itself, adding in all the other species/groups like the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians etc., is sheer overkill.


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Last edited by Robtard on Nov 10th, 2009 at 10:49 PM

Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:46 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
Yes, I do expect you to actually read the facts before spouting your opinion. I'm actually trying to help you from looking a complete idiot which is something you are prone to do on a regular basis on these boards.




...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101


Oddly enough though, I've already summerised a tiny bit of the evidence against your opinion and you didn't even bother to read that.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101
Not to mention with this 1st few sentences they limit it to "empire vs federation"...Given thaat the empire run their entire galaxy compared with the federations's non war making tiny fraction of their galaxy it's a bit pointless.


Well...(see below)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101

If you want to include ST's more aggressive species...the Borg and the Dominion/Jem Hadar then it's far more balanced.


Wrong, the site (Stardestroyer.net) actually talks a lot about other factions, especially the Borg.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101


We take it from there. The Borg have far greater numbers....Stated as "billions of vessels containing trillions of drones" which is just the central nexus and doesn't include borg vessels outwith that small area. So potentiall hundreds of trillions of drones and hundreds of billions of ships. Compare that with what's known about SW. Han says that it would take a thousand stardestroyers to cause the same damage that the death star caused. Implying that the empire doesn't have a thousand star destroyers. Take the events after epVI whereby in the Thrawn trilogy, just 500 old republic cruisers of the Katana fleet would swing the balance of power in the galaxy.


What do they mean by "vessels"? This could mean ships/fighters or anything. Stardestroyer.net claims that ST also includes normal fighters into their ship count, not saying that this is true, although he probably did get this from a source.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101

Given that each Borg cube is large and more powerful than a standard stardestroyer...Then you have an empire that is outnumbered and outgunned by huge degrees.


PROVE IT

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101


The Jem Hadar have similar numbers and are a far more aggressive race. Artificially bred solely for war. They have personal cloaking builit into their biology. They require no sleep, no rest, no food...They can fight continuously. They can also be artificially made to fighting level in 3 days.


Some good advantages, but not enough to seal a win.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101


ST has ablative armour technology which disapates energy based weapons rendering them useless. SW relies solely on energy based weapons.


Uh no, SW doesn't rely solely on energy weapons, ie they have guided missiles.

And since when does the ablative armor render energy weapons USELESS? Why does ST still use energy weapons in huge amounts then?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101


In terms of weaponry, I showed, by canon sources, how a single photon torpedo is some 20+ times more powerful than the most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated on earth...the "tsar bomba". SW vessels have nothing as powerful.


http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire...iveMinutes.html

Uses OFFICIAL numbers, and you'll see that many Star Wars ships have the firepower of FAR more than 20 times that of a nuclear weapon.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:53 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101


We've shown in the thread that ST ships are more manueverable at sub light speeds....We've shown they have a larger range (10 fold) than SW ships. We've shown that while hyperdrive is faster than warp drive....transwarp is WAY faster than hyperdrive.


The thing is 23 pages. Can't you just explain these claims/evidence?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by jaden101


Namely phased weapons, cloaking, adaptation (by the Borg), number of troops/vessels based on canon sources. The fact that a phaser can disintegrate a person yet a standard blaster has been shown to hit main characters and cause little injury. (Leia getting shot in the arm)

Face it. ST just has a far longer period and far more material to draw on. Its EU sources are just as large as SW but it's primary canon sources are far greater. hundreds of hours of shows with which to have written and shown far superior technology.


Star Trek lacks (or maybe they don't, forgive me if I'm wrong) tanks, heavy weapons, machine guns, and a bunch of other stuff.

laughing

Are you seriously claiming that:

ST has a longer period (even though, SW has MILLIONS OF YEARS of civilization, meaning that you'll have MILLIONS OF YEARS WORTH Of forces vs a few hundred years? Sure, ST has more episodes...so what? That doesn't make them more powerful).

EU IS CANON! Just because ST EU isn't doesn't mean the same for SW: SW EU is perfectly canon as long as it doesn't directly contradict the movies.

Oops! Sorry, misinterpreted the last part. Still, if you include the EU, Star Wars does indeed rival Star Wars in content.


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Last edited by Hewhoknowsall on Nov 10th, 2009 at 11:02 PM

Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 10:59 PM
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jaden101
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The thing is 23 pages. Can't you just explain these claims/evidence?



Star Trek lacks (or maybe they don't, forgive me if I'm wrong) tanks, heavy weapons, machine guns, and a bunch of other stuff.

laughing

Are you seriously claiming that:

ST has a longer period (even though, SW has MILLIONS OF YEARS of civilization, meaning that you'll have MILLIONS OF YEARS WORTH Of forces vs a few hundred years? Sure, ST has more episodes...so what? That doesn't make them more powerful).

EU IS CANON! Just because ST EU isn't doesn't mean the same for SW: SW EU is perfectly canon as long as it doesn't directly contradict the movies.

Oops! Sorry, misinterpreted the last part. Still, if you include the EU, Star Wars does indeed rival Star Wars in content.


You never just misinterpreted the last part but the 2nd last part too. I didn't mean the ST universe spans a longer period. I mean that ST has been going since the 1960's and has had 5 different TV series with some 800 hour long episodes as well as 11 movies not to mention all the canon novels and games to draw upon in terms of technology that has been mentioned. SW has 6 movies, some 30 tv episodes, a fair few games and novels.

There's just vastly more material written and shown about the ST universe. It has far more innovation in terms of writing with regards to technology.

I've already highlighted a few in this thread which the SW tech has no answer for.

There's also small but devestating technologies such as phased cloaks which allow ships to be undetectable and pass through energy shielding and even solid objects. Ships were shown in ST to be able to hide inside solid rock because of it.

They've also applied the phasing technology to weapons and so have nuclear weapon equivalent torpedos that can pass straight through energy shielding.

They have ablative armour which is effectively impervious to energy weapons (rendering SW turbo lasers etc completely useless)

No they don't have ground weapons in any large numbers but they wouldn't even need them. They could simply wipe those enemies out from orbit because they have the technology to do so.

There's also the fact that ST has technology that can shield and cloak ENTIRE PLANETS.

As i've already mentioned. In the Thrawn trilogy it's said that 500 old republic cruisers would turn the tide of power in the galaxy...Only 500 ships. The borg alone have potentially hundreds of billions of ships with up to 100,000 drones on each. This is one species. The Jem Hadar have similar numbers of troops that are bred solely for war.

When I have time, i'll copy and paste some pieces of info from the other thread in here for you to read. They hopefully mean you won't make ignorant statements based on no evidence.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 11:14 PM
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quote:
What do they mean by "vessels"? This could mean ships/fighters or anything. Stardestroyer.net claims that ST also includes normal fighters into their ship count, not saying that this is true, although he probably did get this from a source.


It's irrelvant given that we know that all Borg ships are outfitted with the same technology. A standard cube is far greater in size and power than a star destroyer. A tactical cube is smaller but far more powerful as it has enhanced weapons and shielding (including ablative hull armour) and the scout sphere's are smaller but still armed enough easily tackle high powered federation ships.


quote:
PROVE IT


A borg cube is 3km by 3km by 3km. A Star destroyer is less than 3km long. Never mind in both other dimensions.

Here's wookipedias page on the imperial II class destoyer.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Impe..._Star_Destroyer

Stats on the right say 1600m long

Here's the memory-alpha page on a borg cube.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg_cube

It states a borg cube is 28 cubic kms. Do the cube root of that and it's 3.03km


quote:
Uh no, SW doesn't rely solely on energy weapons, ie they have guided missiles.

And since when does the ablative armor render energy weapons USELESS? Why does ST still use energy weapons in huge amounts then?


See? You can't even be bothered to read facts to back up your own opinion. Never mind read those that disagree. SW has proton torpedos which rarely get used.

What do you mean "since when?". You do realise that ablative armour is actually a scientific fact. They use a version of it on the space shuttles now and it's what disipates the heat energy of re-entry.

Do you even know what ablative armour does? Doubt it. What it does is it absorbs energy and disintegrates at a controlled rate.

And ST still uses energy weapons because not all species use ablative armour (although for the purposes of a vs debate we can allow factions within a universe to share technology to fight an outide enemy similar to what the Federation and Borg did to fight species 8472)

Speaking of species 8472. This species comes from an extremely dense fluidic space (their entire universe is liquid) and they can combine 8 single pilot small bioships to destroy entire planets. We're talking about ships about the size of the millenium falcon. SW has nothing to combat this species. Not to mention that they have an entire universe of numbers to call upon and we know from canon sources that thousands and thousands of them were pouring throught the rift from Borg space to fluidic space.


quote:
Uses OFFICIAL numbers, and you'll see that many Star Wars ships have the firepower of FAR more than 20 times that of a nuclear weapon.


You're out of your depth here clearly. Stop talking utter nonsense and admit when you're beaten.


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Old Post Nov 10th, 2009 11:30 PM
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