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Borg VS The Empire
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Borg win 7 70.00%
Empire wins 3 30.00%
Total: 10 votes 100%
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The Borg VS The Empire
Started by: bayhunter12

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-Pr-
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Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Q99
Nothing says adaptation works different between torps and energy weapons.

Torps did jack squat in prior encounters, same as phasers.




Biological elements aren't unadaptable. It's that their ships had an immune system that was stronger than the nanos, so they couldn't adapt that way, but nothing'd prevent them from doing trial and error.


And the Bioships were simply crazy powerful.


and in first contact and subsequent shows, we saw torpedoes completely bypass the borg energy field when phasers couldn't.

my point was that the borg couldn't adapt. if they could, they would have rendered the weapons useless.


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2013 01:50 AM
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Omega Vision
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In the DS9 episode Jem'Hadar, the Odyssey's crew tries to modulate their shield frequency to compensate for the positronic weapons. It fails, but that still implies that the technique of adjusting shields to counter energy weapons isn't some Borg-specific asset, and also isn't full-proof.

I wonder, could a Borg Cube survive a suicide run by a Star Destroyer? Worst comes to worst, I don't think the Empire is above that.


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Old Post Mar 27th, 2013 06:09 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I wonder, could a Borg Cube survive a suicide run by a Star Destroyer?
Offhand, I would say yes, given their relative sizes:

http://www.sideshowsito.com/wp-cont...rship_chart.gif

On the other hand, the super star destroyer looks like an excellent contender. (I'm imaging collision speed as what's typically depicted onscreen, eg, Star Trek Nemesis.)


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Last edited by Mindship on Apr 5th, 2013 at 10:37 PM

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 10:33 PM
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Omega Vision
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A Jem'hadar attack ship once destroyed a Galaxy-class starship with a suicide run, and the size difference there was greater than the size difference between a Borg cube and a Star Destroyer.

Edit: This is my site of choice: http://www.merzo.net/


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“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
to him who loved them so.
Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
echo o’er tide and shore."

-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Last edited by Omega Vision on Apr 7th, 2013 at 02:24 PM

Old Post Apr 7th, 2013 02:19 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
A Jem'hadar attack ship once destroyed a Galaxy-class starship with a suicide run, and the size difference there was greater than the size difference between a Borg cube and a Star Destroyer.
I could see that, if the speed is great enough, or there's a potent energy source aboard. I was purely eyeballing.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Edit: This is my site of choice: http://www.merzo.net/
I'd forgotten about this one. Yes, excellent choice.


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Old Post Apr 7th, 2013 05:28 PM
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MF DELPH
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I think the ramming tactic depends on velocity and whether the shields are up. There was an episode where a ship travelling at impulse (c) bounced off the Enterprise's shields. IIRC, it was the episode where they went to a planet that had a decommissioned army of super soldiers that were kept in a penal colony and one of the soldiers escaped and stole a shuttle with which he performed the maneuver (The Hunted).


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Old Post Apr 7th, 2013 10:46 PM
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it's about the angle too, iirc.


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Old Post Apr 7th, 2013 11:37 PM
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MF DELPH
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Likely. How fast are Star Destroyers anyway? I know the Millennium Falcon could outrun any of them and it's top speed was .5 past light speed.

*edit

Correction on my previous post. Impulse isn't light speed. It's .5 light speed at full impulse. Light speed is warp 1.


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Old Post Apr 8th, 2013 03:24 PM
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Lorenz
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The Empire has three great advantage:

- Hypermatter annihilator: This technology provides magnitudes more power than the antimatter reactors in Star Trek.

- Hyperdrive is almost as flexible as warp, (allowing ships to jump without outer help and almost everywhere.) but almost as fast as transwarp. (crossing the galaxy in some days) And it looks like, there is no hypermatter without hyperdrive. (Wookiepedia)

- Since the GE controls almost the entire galaxy, it has significantly more resources than the Borg, only possessing the 1/8 of the Milky Way. (Asuming roughly same density of habitable planets and strategic materials.)

But the Borg wins in almost every other field:
- Transporter technology
- Adaptability and technological flexibility
- Morale: the Borg has no moral in conventional sense, but the Borg drones, controlled by the hive mind, would willingly sacrifice themselves for the Collective, while we see that Stormtroopers surrender against the primitive ewoks and Han Solo in Battle of Endor. The Empire is confident with its galactic hegemony, showing no interest in extragalactic expansion, leaving for the Borg, pursuing the perfection endlessly, to discover them, and choose the time and place to fight.

- Modular and decentralized vessels: GE ships appear to have Achilles heels, (Thermal exhaust port on Death Star, Shield domes, bridge and hangar on ISD-s) while a Borg Cube can continue fighting even if 78% of its structure gets destroyed (Memory Alpha)

- Sensor and cloaking technology: The Imperial sensors are primitive: The Millenium Falcon could hide on the hull of a Star Destroyer in SW V, and the Death Star couldn't detect it and warn it's fighters at Yavin. They also appeared to have no environment scanners on their shield projection base on the Endor, but was assaulted by the ewoks, and foolishly run into the trap.

So my scenario looks like this: The Borg constructs an transwarp conduit somewhere hidden in the Outer Rim, and sends probes to investigate the galaxy. Some probes encounter Imperial Navy vessels, but quickly self-destruct. After some months on research, the Borg choose a poorly defended, insignificant planet, and assimilate it with three cubes. Let's say it's defended by a small garnizon, and an outdated Victory-class destroyer. If they can beam through it's shields, the battle wont last long, but even if not, and the SD's turbolasers deal heavy damage to the cubes, they adapt their shields to minimalize damage, and destroy the bridge using the old combination of shield-draining beam and cutting beam. Then they tractor in the escape pods and the civilian vessels of the planet, and assimilate everybody, who they can. (It's possible that, some species are immune to assimilation, both the most humanoids (including the humans, making the majority of the Imperial military) can be easily assimilated.) Then they destroy all the clues and retreat into our galaxy.
Having ships in its hands, and some engineers in its collective mind, the Borg assimilates all the captured technology, constructing Hypercubes fitted with hyperdrive and hypermatter reactor. Then in a couple of years they conquer the entire Milky Way. They can attack the Earth (and all key Federation, Klingon, Romulan... planets) with hyperdrives, assimilating them, before the Starfleet ships learn about the attack and sprint home, rendering Starfleet to Rebel-like outlaws roaming space homelessly, and slowly dying without personal and material supplies. With this, the Collective had compensated all the three main advantage of the Empire, which is still unavare of the Borgs presence. And how knows, may they could get some thransphasic torpedoes and ablative armor on the Earth
Its highly likely, that on the first assimilated planet, the Borg had found some Force-sensitive people. There are many possibilities:
- Force makes immune to nanoprobes. Best for the Empire, allowing only macrosurgical assimilation, but the Borg still learned about the Force.
- The Borg can develop some Nanotechnology or bioweapon, rendering Midi-chlorians useless.
- They can propagate Midi-chlorains, making all the drones Force sensitive. (Worst for the Empire)

After that they can launch their attack to Corusant, Kuat, and all the Empire, saying 'resistance is futile'. While the most of Imperial weapons (from blaster pistols to turbolasers) don't have settings and modulations, the Borg can quickly adapt their shielding to them, and annihilate or assimilate everything they find.
Possibly, the Borg assimilates an Imperial Officer, knowing about the Death Star, and they can send back an captured ISD with it's original (but inflected) crew, to get it, but even if not, and they run into it, and the superlaser vaporizes several cubes, they have solutions:
- Kamikaze attack with a cube on hyperdrive or warp 9.99
- leaving Subspace on the shortest safe distance, on the oposite side of the station, than the superlaser emitter, and landing on the surface, before DS could roll and use it's main weapon. Then they can cut the hull, and send hundreds of thousands of drones to assimilate the crew.
- One gramm red matter from assimilated vulcan scientist.

Old Post Sep 4th, 2016 03:45 PM
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The Ellimist
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The Empire utterly crushes any civilization in Star Trek short of entity-like outliers.

1. It contains a monstrous industry of a million systems and as many as fifty million colonies that allows it to construct a 900 km diameter Death Star to half completion in about a year, in the outer rim, in secret.

2. Its hyperdrives allow it to strike with fleets at will anywhere in the galaxy within hours.

3. The firepower and shielding ratings of imperial weaponry are orders of magnitude beyond those of the Borg; there are a host of independent methodologies to come to this conclusion, but I'd just point to Saxton's ICS's and Leeland Chee's endorsement of them as the first place he'd look to for firepower figures.

4. In addition to the Death Star - and I'm not sure what the Borg's response is supposed to be - the Empire (we're presumably using Legends given the OP's date) has several superweapons being developed in the maw such as the sun crusher and galaxy gun, which would be entirely out of context problems for the Borg.

5. Palpatine himself has the ability to conjure Force storms from across the galaxy that can tear the surfaces off of worlds.

Yeah, the Borg could get the entire Alpha Quadrant and the Dominion, and it wouldn't make a damn of a difference.


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