By considering individual power sets and performance against opponents of the same tier like everyone else. And it would help if you didn't lie so much about the feats themselves. We are handicapping fights, not cosmic weightlifting. That's all you seem to really want to do.
Compare WHAT exactly? They don't exist in the same universes. They are both top dogs in their respective universes, but don't completely dominate the tier. If they did, they would be considered in a higher tier. Don't try to act like Diana hasn't gotten the best of Superman, and before you go on an insane rant, I didn't say she was more powerful than him.
What is your point about the Ironman fight? You always leave these hanging chad arguements and you do it on purpose. What exactly is the outcome of those two fights indicative of? If you are concluding that Ironman=Surfer, you are high or stupid. Answer and I'll move on with my reply.
Okay, I'll explain again. It's to illustrate that Superman and Wonderwoman are both herald class. I know how obsessed you are with Superman and I don't mean to be insulting, just honest. While you have made it perfectly clear that you believe Superman would beat Thor, Surfer and anyone else in the tier, based on your understanding of said characters in terms of power sets and history and also considering the Thor and Surfer crossovers (yes, I known Superman and Surfer didn't fight), do you HONESTLY believe Superman is a TIER above Surfer/Thor?
Last edited by Blue Area Vet on Jul 13th, 2015 at 06:15 PM
NO! I never once suggested that! They are all characters of a single tier.
Dude, had you been paying attention not only to me, but everyone else who has made argument's for Surfer, it's a matter of his incredible versatility based on a never ending resource. And it doesn't help that he CAN exploit weaknesses in a match with Superman (on paper).
So no, I don't put him a tier above Thor or Superman, but he's nightmare match up for Superman (and even more of a nightmare for Hulk). On the other hand, Thor is a better match for Surfer due to A) his prowess as a warrior and more importantly, B) Surfer's in ability to effectively manipulate Asgardian energy. Why does Hulk do well against Thor? Thor's pride and warrior spirit compels him to fight Hulk physically, which plays into Hulk's hands.
Sometimes it's all about match ups/powersets. Think about it like this. Take two 6'4, 235 pound men. One is is a martial art instructor, the other has a desk job, goes to the gym and jogs on the weekends. If they were to fight 10 times randomly (different realities), the martial arts instructor is going to take 8 or 9 of them. It doesn't mean the other guy doesn't kick most grown men's asses.
Last edited by Blue Area Vet on Jul 13th, 2015 at 06:28 PM
And to answer your final question, I'd give Surfer 8-10 for Superman per random encounter, 10 of ten with knowledge moving forward.
With Thor, you aren't going to like this, but I'd give him 6-10 on the generous side. You need to understand that Thor didn't use a fraction of his magical powers against Superman, and still Superman said he was his hardest opponent. Superman was clearly holding back until the end and his true power stunned Thor, but Thor was holding back as well, perhaps not with strength, but with this full power set. In short, Superman pulled the trigger first. This is why he expressed confidence instead of consession at the end of of crossover when he said he now has Superman's measure. He's saying "Okay, I won't be fooled next time." For the record, I don't think Thor could put him down without using EP.
Last edited by Blue Area Vet on Jul 13th, 2015 at 06:39 PM
No, I'm saying that this is Surfer's MO and Surfer is easily tough enough to fight him physically until he can discover how to exploit him. Superman has no actual defense against this except for to occupy him. Why can't you just see that in this case, the CLEAR advantage happens to go to Surfer? Most other experts here on both sides believe the same. Your obsession tells you that Superman can and must be EVERYBODY EVERY TIME regardless of the conditions.