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Third Riddick Movie
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
From memory you do see a surprised look on Riddick's face when Fry was killed.

He clearly expected her to be on the ship, whether he liked it or not.

Riddick respected the balls Fry had to stand up to him & question his conscience. He felt her weakness was her responsibility to save others that meant very little to her & yet he respected her determination & leadership qualities.


No, we see mixed emotions, as it's obvious (to me) he had started to have some level of feelings for her, but not enough to override his own survival. He quickly recovers and is back to himself shortly after.

That was the plan yes, but plans fail and Riddick quickly adapts to survive. This is who he is to a fault. Remember the scene when he inspects a monster's skull and quickly deduces they have an exploitable weakness?

Possible, as I said, I do feel he had some measure of feelings for her, but not enough to put his own life at risk on carnivorous monster planet.


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Old Post Sep 22nd, 2011 03:39 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
What version of Pitch Black did you see?

Riddick never stabbed Fry.
Neither physically or metaphorically.

As far as murdering someone for his "surgical shine job"...it was revealed to be a tall-tale in Chronicles, to put the fear in the kid in Pitch Black.


I saw it in the theaters and I think I might have seen an uncut version at home, iirc.

Except he did, it was subtle and played to Riddick as he was in Pitch Black, a bad-ass criminal willing to do anything to survive. Not the unwilling survivor of the universe pansy they morphed him into in that cinematic abortion Chronicles was.

Yes, they retconned the character [ie after the fact] to fit into the new idea/image of Riddick. People have been pointing out the differences in Riddick from PB to Chronicles in here for pages.


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Last edited by Robtard on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 03:52 AM

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2011 03:46 AM
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Esau Cairn
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
No, we see mixed emotions, as it's obvious (to me) he had started to have some level of feelings for her, but not enough to override his own survival. He quickly recovers and is back to himself shortly after.

That was the plan yes, but plans fail and Riddick quickly adapts to survive. This is who he is to a fault. Remember the scene when he inspects a monster's skull and quickly deduces they have an exploitable weakness?

Possible, as I said, I do feel he had some measure of feelings for her, but not enough to put his own life at risk on carnivorous monster planet.


Whatever feelings Riddick had for Fry was not romantic but purely one of grudging respect for her courage & ability to survive as well.
Fry's knowledge on how to repair & fly the shuttle would've been enough for Riddick to see her beneficial to his survival.

Riddick's own "warrior code" didn't stoop as low as the bounty hunter who easily suggested sacrificing the boy/girl when it was discovered that the scent of her period was attracting the creatures.
This was the final straw for Riddick morals to finally kill the bounty hunter rather than show how "bad-ass" & un-caring he was by agreeing to letting the child be killed to give them more time to escape.

I don't understand how you connect Riddick finding the "blind spot" of the creatures as a means to justify that he had mixed feelings for Fry & then over rode them...?

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2011 07:10 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
I saw it in the theaters and I think I might have seen an uncut version at home, iirc.

Except he did, it was subtle and played to Riddick as he was in Pitch Black, a bad-ass criminal willing to do anything to survive. Not the unwilling survivor of the universe pansy they morphed him into in that cinematic abortion Chronicles was.

Yes, they retconned the character [ie after the fact] to fit into the new idea/image of Riddick. People have been pointing out the differences in Riddick from PB to Chronicles in here for pages.


I saw Pitch Black on the big screen when it was first released & then about 4-5 times on dvd & blu-ray.

I have not seen a version or even an alternate scene where Riddick stabs Fry.

So are you saying that you've seen a version where he does or are you just implying that Riddick is a type of person who would?

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2011 07:14 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Whatever feelings Riddick had for Fry was not romantic but purely one of grudging respect for her courage & ability to survive as well.
Fry's knowledge on how to repair & fly the shuttle would've been enough for Riddick to see her beneficial to his survival.

Riddick's own "warrior code" didn't stoop as low as the bounty hunter who easily suggested sacrificing the boy/girl when it was discovered that the scent of her period was attracting the creatures.
This was the final straw for Riddick morals to finally kill the bounty hunter rather than show how "bad-ass" & un-caring he was by agreeing to letting the child be killed to give them more time to escape.

I don't understand how you connect Riddick finding the "blind spot" of the creatures as a means to justify that he had mixed feelings for Fry & then over rode them...?



Yeah, I said "feelings", not "he was romancing her", so we both agree there. Her usefulness (as I said) to him did not override Riddick's will for survival.

Or Riddick needed Cole Hauser dead cos he was Riddick's enemy. It's not like they would have been friends after they left the planet.

Cos it wasn't a connection as you imply, read back. Fry leaving with him was the plan; plan didn't go as expected and Riddick adapted to survive to the immediate situation. ie Riddick is a survivor and quickly adapts. Quickly assessing his greatest enemy with deducing the blind spot shows his adaptability.


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Last edited by Robtard on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 03:29 PM

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2011 03:22 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I saw Pitch Black on the big screen when it was first released & then about 4-5 times on dvd & blu-ray.

I have not seen a version or even an alternate scene where Riddick stabs Fry.

So are you saying that you've seen a version where he does or are you just implying that Riddick is a type of person who would?


Okay.

It was in the theatrical release.

See above. Would, Riddick in PB wasn't the type of cat who would sacrifice himself for someone he just met, if anyone.


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Last edited by Robtard on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 03:30 PM

Old Post Sep 22nd, 2011 03:24 PM
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Esau Cairn
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Like I said, I saw the theatrical release as well.

In no version of Pitch Black does Riddick stab Fry.

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 02:23 AM
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Robtard
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And like I said to before, few people picked up on the subtleties, it's cool.


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Last edited by Robtard on Sep 23rd, 2011 at 04:02 AM

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 04:00 AM
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Esau Cairn
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
And like I said to before, few people picked up on the subtleties, it's cool.


Seriously, you're not making much sense with this "stabbing" issue.

No matter how obvious or subtle you say it is.

Are you saying, Riddick took his knife & STABBED Fry in the movie version that you saw?

Or are you using "stabbed" in a metaphorical sense?

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 05:10 AM
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Robtard
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Not sure what's confusing about me saying "stabbed", but while we didn't literally see the knife go into her back due to camera angles, Riddick stabbed(penetrate flesh) Fry with his knife(blade; not penis) right before the monster took her. If the camera had panned backwards and we saw the knife go in, it wouldn't have been subtle.

But it was subtle and well done, letting us know exactly what kind of man Riddick is without having to resort to showing the act directly. He's a survivor willing to do anything should the situation require.

Though some could argue his actions had a dual meaning, both giving him a better chance of survival at that moment and giving a small mercy to Fry as she would have likely been killed anyways along with Riddick. Not saying this is so, but it's possible.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 05:48 AM
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Mindset
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Whether Riddick stabbed Fry or not has been argued to death on imdb.

I never thought he did.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 06:52 AM
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I feel that if he had stabbed her with the knife, and THEN the monster came and took her (which would have involved stabbing her again, most likely), she would have recoiled twice, as opposed to just the one recoil, then gazing longingly at him before being dragged away.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 07:18 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure what's confusing about me saying "stabbed", but while we didn't literally see the knife go into her back due to camera angles, Riddick stabbed(penetrate flesh) Fry with his knife(blade; not penis) right before the monster took her. If the camera had panned backwards and we saw the knife go in, it wouldn't have been subtle.

But it was subtle and well done, letting us know exactly what kind of man Riddick is without having to resort to showing the act directly. He's a survivor willing to do anything should the situation require.

Though some could argue his actions had a dual meaning, both giving him a better chance of survival at that moment and giving a small mercy to Fry as she would have likely been killed anyways along with Riddick. Not saying this is so, but it's possible.


I've a copy of Pitch Black at home, I'll re-watch that scene again.

From memory Riddick was no where close enough to Fry when the creature got her....

Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 07:22 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I feel that if he had stabbed her with the knife, and THEN the monster came and took her (which would have involved stabbing her again, most likely), she would have recoiled twice, as opposed to just the one recoil, then gazing longingly at him before being dragged away.


That's were my alternate argument could come in with Riddick's stabbing having a double meaning, he's a killer; surely he knows how to kill someone mercifully so they bleed-out with as little pain as possible. The gaze could have been a "thank you" as it's probably painful getting devoured while being fully aware.

Now the monster, that thing would have just skewered her.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2011 03:35 PM
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Esau Cairn
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure what's confusing about me saying "stabbed", but while we didn't literally see the knife go into her back due to camera angles, Riddick stabbed(penetrate flesh) Fry with his knife(blade; not penis) right before the monster took her. If the camera had panned backwards and we saw the knife go in, it wouldn't have been subtle.

But it was subtle and well done, letting us know exactly what kind of man Riddick is without having to resort to showing the act directly. He's a survivor willing to do anything should the situation require.

Though some could argue his actions had a dual meaning, both giving him a better chance of survival at that moment and giving a small mercy to Fry as she would have likely been killed anyways along with Riddick. Not saying this is so, but it's possible.



Okaaay...I did watch Pitch Black again the other night & I honestly think your portrayal of Riddick as a cold hearted, merciless killer intent on his own survival, no matter what...is a bit more on your wishful thinking compared to his actual actions in the movie.

After Riddick kills Johns, the other survivors who are left are Fry, Jack, the Muslim HolyMan & his son. All four are weaponless & decide to go back to the wreckage of their ship distancing themselves from Riddick. At this stage too, Riddick has all the fuel-cells strapped to him.

He clearly has no need for the others, they are no threat at all to him & YET tells them they're better off with him rather than return to the wrecked ship. He tells them to keep up as he runs/drags the fuel cells with him through the canyon.

Then to show further compassion, Jack gets knocked down & pinned by one of the creatures, calling out for Riddick to help.
Riddick could've easily ignored Jack's pleas BUT he hesitates to run, sighs, puts down the fuel cells & runs back to kill the creature with his knife uttering, "HE DID NOT KNOW WHO HE WAS [email protected] WITH!"

Fry, Jack & the Holy Man's flames die out (Holy Man's son is killed) & Riddick not wanting to just leave them out in the open, takes the time (out of his own survival) to find a cave for them to hide in before he takes off.

So yeah, he's finally made it to the shuttle, all prepped up ready to go off on his own when Fry turns up.
Riddick could've easily said, "F-YOU. Too late B*tch."
But alas, he shuts the engines down & lowers the ramp. He tries to get Fry to come with him & forget the others, she stands her ground, tells him she's getting more lights to save the others back in the cave & pleads with him not to leave but to come back with her & save Jack & the Holyman.

So yeah 3 times in a row, Riddick shows that he clearly has a conscience & cares not only for Fry but for Jack & the Holyman too.
3 total strangers, he's put his survival & freedom on hold to risk his life & rescue them.
He is not as cold-blooded as you make/ remembered him to be.

As for whether Riddick stabs Fry....
I say no, she is simply killed by a creature as she helps a badly injured Riddick to stand.
Even Twohy & Diesel's commentary on this scene makes no note whatsoever on Riddick stabbing her. They just mention that Riddick was on his "last legs" when Fry comes to his rescue & how strong the actress was to convincingly lift Vin up.
The funny look Riddick gives after Fry is killed doesn't have any double-meaning (Twohy even jokes that Riddick wants to kiss Fry)....he was simply filmed by himself on camera with the depth of compassion only Vin Diesel can give in every movie he stars in.

Old Post Sep 27th, 2011 06:59 AM
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Patient_Leech
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
He tries to get Fry to come with him & forget the others, she stands her ground, tells him she's getting more lights to save the others back in the cave & pleads with him not to leave but to come back with her & save Jack & the Holyman.


Sidenote: (the Holy Man's name is Imam, btw. Which is funny cuz they pronounce it so many different ways in the movie. I think they mention that in the commentary, too, haha)

Yeah, and it's not exactly her PLEAS that convince Riddick to have compassion and to help her save them. Riddick sees HER willingness to go save them after she was willing to purge them ALL at the beginning of the movie to save her OWN ass. It's not like she convinced Riddick to come help her with logic and reason or even a promise of compensation or reward. It was just pure human compassion. Riddick found her selflessness "interesting."

So why would he then turn around and stab her as she's helping him up? That doesn't make a f*ck-bit of sense: "YEAH! STABBED YA B*TCH!! IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT A CREATURE GRABBED YOU AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME!! YOU DID DIE FOR THEM!! AND IT WAS BECAUSE OF ME!! I AM GOD'S RIGHTEOUS HAND!!" lulz

Sorry, Mr. Robtard... there's no "subtlety" that everyone in the world is missing except you. It would defeat the whole purpose of the movie. In fact, I think the only reason the theory cropped up is that Riddick is still holding his shiv while Fry is helping him up. And I would even assume that the theory was mentioned in jest. He obviously isn't holding on to it to STAB her. He's probably still holding it so he can fight the creatures to the bitter end..

Last edited by Patient_Leech on Oct 1st, 2011 at 04:38 PM

Old Post Oct 1st, 2011 04:30 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Okaaay...I did watch Pitch Black again the other night & I honestly think your portrayal of Riddick as a cold hearted, merciless killer intent on his own survival, no matter what...is a bit more on your wishful thinking compared to his actual actions in the movie.

After Riddick kills Johns, the other survivors who are left are Fry, Jack, the Muslim HolyMan & his son. All four are weaponless & decide to go back to the wreckage of their ship distancing themselves from Riddick. At this stage too, Riddick has all the fuel-cells strapped to him.

He clearly has no need for the others, they are no threat at all to him & YET tells them they're better off with him rather than return to the wrecked ship. He tells them to keep up as he runs/drags the fuel cells with him through the canyon.

Then to show further compassion, Jack gets knocked down & pinned by one of the creatures, calling out for Riddick to help.
Riddick could've easily ignored Jack's pleas BUT he hesitates to run, sighs, puts down the fuel cells & runs back to kill the creature with his knife uttering, "HE DID NOT KNOW WHO HE WAS [email protected] WITH!"

Fry, Jack & the Holy Man's flames die out (Holy Man's son is killed) & Riddick not wanting to just leave them out in the open, takes the time (out of his own survival) to find a cave for them to hide in before he takes off.

So yeah, he's finally made it to the shuttle, all prepped up ready to go off on his own when Fry turns up.
Riddick could've easily said, "F-YOU. Too late B*tch."
But alas, he shuts the engines down & lowers the ramp. He tries to get Fry to come with him & forget the others, she stands her ground, tells him she's getting more lights to save the others back in the cave & pleads with him not to leave but to come back with her & save Jack & the Holyman.

So yeah 3 times in a row, Riddick shows that he clearly has a conscience & cares not only for Fry but for Jack & the Holyman too.
3 total strangers, he's put his survival & freedom on hold to risk his life & rescue them.
He is not as cold-blooded as you make/ remembered him to be.

As for whether Riddick stabs Fry....
I say no, she is simply killed by a creature as she helps a badly injured Riddick to stand.
Even Twohy & Diesel's commentary on this scene makes no note whatsoever on Riddick stabbing her. They just mention that Riddick was on his "last legs" when Fry comes to his rescue & how strong the actress was to convincingly lift Vin up.
The funny look Riddick gives after Fry is killed doesn't have any double-meaning (Twohy even jokes that Riddick wants to kiss Fry)....he was simply filmed by himself on camera with the depth of compassion only Vin Diesel can give in every movie he stars in.


To your first 7 paragraphs:

Everything Riddick did for the others was because A) He wasn't in danger of immediate death as he was when he was wounded so his survival instinct wasn't in "all out" mode. B) He wanted hostages if possible when he left, as he was a wanted man and having civillians could come in handy.

To your last paragraph:

The director not saying "Riddick stabbed Fry" doesn't mean anything of itself, as he also didn't say "Riddick didn't stab Fry". It was subtle and he wants to keep the viewer guessing.

"depth of compassion only Vin Diesel can give in every movie he stars in." Was that a joke? Cos Diesel isn't a very good actor.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2011 04:41 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Patient_Leech

Sorry, Mr. Robtard... there's no "subtlety" that everyone in the world is missing except you. It would defeat the whole purpose of the movie. In fact, I think the only reason the theory cropped up is that Riddick is still holding his shiv while Fry is helping him up. And I would even assume that the theory was mentioned in jest. He obviously isn't holding on to it to STAB her. He's probably still holding it so he can fight the creatures to the bitter end..


Incorrect, dude.


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Old Post Oct 7th, 2011 04:43 PM
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Riddick didn't stab Fry, that should be pretty clear since he was emotionally saying "Not for me, not for me!" after she got grabbed. As in, he didn't want her to die to save him.


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Old Post Oct 10th, 2011 05:48 PM
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You misunderstood.


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Old Post Oct 10th, 2011 09:43 PM
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