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Superman Vs Wonderwoman
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bluewaterrider
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Indeed, Superman fighting at full physical AND non-corrupted mental potential is someone to reckon with.

Still, Wonder Woman, at least as she's been presented from roughly 2001 to 2011, DOES have what it takes to contend on his level, and, arguably, above that level as well.

Unfortunately, editorial seems to have something against her.
Even when fairly egalitarian creative staff manage upon her.

The following snapshots of one such case should suggest exactly what I mean.


Tandiandthe223 -- Amazo Aristeia

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:28 AM
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bluewaterrider
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Tandi and the 223 -- Amazo Aristeia, snapshot 2

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:30 AM
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-Pr-
...

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Indeed, Superman fighting at full physical AND non-corrupted mental potential is someone to reckon with.

Still, Wonder Woman, at least as she's been presented from roughly 2001 to 2011, DOES have what it takes to contend on his level, and, arguably, above that level as well.

Unfortunately, editorial seems to have something against her.
Even when fairly egalitarian creative staff manage upon her.

The following snapshots of one such case should suggest exactly what I mean.


Tandiandthe223 -- Amazo Aristeia


What do you mean exactly? I'm genuinely curious.

Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:31 AM
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bluewaterrider
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Tandiandthe223 -- Amazo Aristeia

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:31 AM
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bluewaterrider
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In the process of showing (or at least trying to show) you, PR.

Be patient for about 7 minutes ...



Tandiandthe 223 -- Amazo Aristeia

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:33 AM
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-Pr-
...

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Location: Ireland.

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
In the process of showing (or at least trying to show) you, PR.

Be patient for about 7 minutes ...



Tandiandthe 223 -- Amazo Aristeia


I've read the issue stick out tongue

but okay, I'll wait.

Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:35 AM
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bluewaterrider
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Tandiandthe223 -- Amazo Aristeia

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:37 AM
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bluewaterrider
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Tandi and the 223 -- Amazo Aristeia

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:38 AM
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bluewaterrider
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Tandiandthe223 -- Amazo Aristeia



Source: Justice League of America #24, Volume 2
Writer: Dwayne McDuffie
Penciller: Ed Benes
Date: October 2008

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:41 AM
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bluewaterrider
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Any particular submission set end is marked by reference information from me, P.R. Question away ... if you still have any!

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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:50 AM
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-Pr-
...

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Location: Ireland.

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I'm just wondering what you mean by editorial apparently having something against her.

Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 11:06 AM
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bluewaterrider
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1) Wonder Woman tends to be oversexualized. Here, it was enough that I decided to edit some of the shots, especially the 2nd to last panel of my last scan, just before Irons explains that, Superman powers or no, Amazo really IS gone this time.
Seriously, you have the book, you know what the full version looks like -- is it too much to ask for just a LITTLE modesty with what DC claims is their premier heroine?

2) Wonder Woman is seldom if ever allowed the opportunity to "come through" or "save the day" as characters like Superman, Green Lantern, Batman, or even Flash are wont to do.
Maybe I just haven't read enough DC books, but, what stories can YOU cite where Diana actually does something TRULY significant and is not just a stepping stone or redshirt for the "Big Bad" of the arc?

Last edited by bluewaterrider on Mar 31st, 2012 at 11:29 AM

Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 11:23 AM
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-Pr-
...

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Location: Ireland.

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1. Okay, I can understand the oversexualisation (that even a word?), but that has been a staple of the character since the early days. Not saying it's right, but it is consistent.

What would you suggest they do to, well, give her more modesty?

2. That is true, but I don't think it's Diana that's singled out as much as it is Superman and Batman just being the premier day-savers. You could make the same complaint about people like Lantern, Flash, Aquaman even. And let's not forget poor J'onn.

Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 11:41 AM
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bluewaterrider
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What would help provide Diana more modesty?

a) Gradually developing a fuller costume.
b) Using alternate costumes/armor for different occasions.
c) Using reasonably athletic silicone-free women for artist's models for Di
d) Limiting Maxim-style poses in favor of more natural ones
e) Showing Diana in everyday dress once in a while.


Quietly, the Wonder Woman magazine HAS been doing the last, which I've been cheered to see.
Given who she visited in her last issue, I expect to see some Items from "B" making the rounds, too.

Finally, it would help to hire artists, who, by their nature, tend to be respectful of their characters.

Aaron Lopresti comes immediately to mind. He excelled at giving Diana a physique that communicated beauty and strength and hardness yet was still family friendly in nearly all situations.
Rags Morales wouldn't be too far behind. Haven't really seen anything offensive from him that I can remember.

Ed Benes ... ?
Well, all I will say is that Ed USED to be, back around 2002
(I'm thinking of the trade Many Happy Returns that he did the interior art for during that year) an artist of the kind I presently seek ...


--------------------------

I'll get back to you on the second part.
You ... may have something there.
I don't see it right now, and it doesn't feel like it, but it's possible to get false positive readings on this class of material I guess ...

Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 12:18 PM
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-Pr-
...

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What would help provide Diana more modesty?

a) Gradually developing a fuller costume.
b) Using alternate costumes/armor for different occasions.
c) Using reasonably athletic silicone-free women for artist's models for Di
d) Limiting Maxim-style poses in favor of more natural ones
e) Showing Diana in everyday dress once in a while.


Quietly, the Wonder Woman magazine HAS been doing the last, which I've been cheered to see.
Given who she visited in her last issue, I expect to see some Items from "B" making the rounds, too.

Finally, it would help to hire artists, who, by their nature, tend to be respectful of their characters.

Aaron Lopresti comes immediately to mind. He excelled at giving Diana a physique that communicated beauty and strength and hardness yet was still family friendly in nearly all situations.
Rags Morales wouldn't be too far behind. Haven't really seen anything offensive from him that I can remember.

Ed Benes ... ?
Well, all I will say is that Ed USED to be, back around 2002
(I'm thinking of the trade Many Happy Returns that he did the interior art for during that year) an artist of the kind I presently seek ...


--------------------------

I'll get back to you on the second part.
You ... may have something there.
I don't see it right now, and it doesn't feel like it, but it's possible to get false positive readings on this class of material I guess ...


a) Did you like the pants costume? Or would you want something else?
b) Armour would be good, sure.
c) They've done that before. And besides, athletic women can have fuller figures.
d) Sure, but there are already artists that do that.
e) They did that in her series, didn't they?

Benes likes his ass shots, that's true, but I think he's one of the few artists that can make a woman look absolutely gorgeous and yet completely badass at the same time.

I can't stand Rags Morales though.

Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 12:43 PM
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JakeTheBank
Return of the King

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I feel that this reboot hasn't been as kind to Diana as it has been to others.


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Old Post Mar 31st, 2012 10:59 PM
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Lek Kuen
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
a) Did you like the pants costume? Or would you want something else?
b) Armour would be good, sure.
c) They've done that before. And besides, athletic women can have fuller figures.
d) Sure, but there are already artists that do that.
e) They did that in her series, didn't they?

Benes likes his ass shots, that's true, but I think he's one of the few artists that can make a woman look absolutely gorgeous and yet completely badass at the same time.

.


I personally think she looks better with the pants


But about Benes he normally can do it right I think, sometimes he gets a little excessive but he normally manages to have it work in a way that it doesn't completely distract from what's going on. And like you said, makes them look badass.


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Props to Scythe for the sig

Old Post Apr 1st, 2012 04:18 AM
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abhilegend
Man of Tomorrow

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I feel that this reboot hasn't been as kind to Diana as it has been to others.

What?


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2012 06:49 AM
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abhilegend
Man of Tomorrow

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Q,

Regarding the OMAC fight, and the fact that Wonder Woman was injured and still doing better than most DC Heroes ...?

I agree. In fact, I was going to point out not only that, but the fact that Diana spent most of that preceeding fight (Sacrifice) battling a Superman who was NOT at his normal levels, nor even at "holding back" levels, nor even at "murderously enraged" levels.

He was SUNCHARGED and murderously enraged, and not holding back, and using every primal resource available to scour "Doomsday" off the face of the Earth. Effectively double or triple-boosted Superman was what Diana was facing.

He wasn't sun amped. They were fighting somewhere near venus IIRC and that isn't enough to amp him. That would be a hell of a jobbing on superman's part, he punked a kryptonian goddess and darkseid on the surface of sun. Oh forgot that you are the same guest2 of DCMB who claims that wonder woman is stronger than superman.


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2012 06:55 AM
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JakeTheBank
Return of the King

Gender: Male
Location: Doomstadt

quote: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
What?


I really don't feel DCnU Wonder Woman at all.

I tried really hard to give it a chance and read issues 1-6, but I'm not on board with it. I understand that Diana, of all the main DC characters, seems to be the one that's the most difficult to handle, but she just seems lost in the shuffle and doesn't carry that feeling of the character prior to the reboot.


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Old Post Apr 1st, 2012 08:31 AM
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