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Home » Misc » Computer / Video Games Discussion » Games 'Versus' Forum » Ganondorf & Link VS Ultimecia & Squall

Ganondorf & Link VS Ultimecia & Squall
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

Was not intended to be hostile. For the record.


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Old Post Mar 11th, 2010 09:57 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Gender: Male
Location: The End

quote:
Are you trying to say that for some reason a fragment of the triforce would protect someone, and the whoel thing would not?


I'm asking whether something greater and fundementally different from the sum of its parts will still act the same.

quote:
Terrible analogy is terrible.


Thats nice. Mind actually debating points?

quote:
Her most powerful attack is useless, and what she has left over cannot overcome the FF8 party.


No it isn't. For giggles I'll find the thing that explains how and what you need to escape TC and post it.

quote:
posted by ME
''There's only one way to make yourself exist in a world like that! As friends, don't forget one another! As friends, believe in one another! Believe in your friends' existence!'

So not only do you need to focus on friends, meaning you actually need friends judging by how its emphasised that you need to do all this 'as friends', but it seems like you need friends to focus on you as well. So..... I guess Sephiroth Team one is out of luck.


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Last edited by Nephthys on Mar 11th, 2010 at 10:00 PM

Old Post Mar 11th, 2010 09:57 PM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

quote:
I'm asking whether something greater and fundementally different from the sum of its parts will still act the same.
The fundamental difference is that the individual pieces are much more restricted and less powerful as part of the failsafe set in place by the goddesses which made it split to begin with in OoT.

quote:
Thats nice. Mind actually debating points.

If I make a rope, and you steal the rope, you are not more powerful, you can just carry a rope.

quote:
No it isn't. For giggles I'll find the thing that explains how and what you need to escape TC and post it.

Well, you need to start in her universe while she's actively compressing time. She's already done that. Link's triforce is already actively generating friendship, and the triforce as a whole contains greater power than TC has ever worked on before.

Claiming it automaticly works on something like the triforce, which we have evidence actively resists such crap, is a no limit fallacy.


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The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 11th, 2010 10:03 PM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Gender: Male
Location: The End

quote:
The fundamental difference is that the individual pieces are much more restricted and less powerful as part of the failsafe set in place by the goddesses which made it split to begin with in OoT.


So basically, you have no idea what powers it may or may not have and have no way of proving it'll do anything other than one specific thing that requires them to wish for, correct?

quote:

If I make a rope, and you steal the rope, you are not more powerful, you can just carry a rope.


Correct. If however, you make a rope which I then steal and proceed to squash into an atom-sized ball along with a butt load more rope I just have lying around, I am more powerful than you.

quote:
Well, you need to start in her universe while she's actively compressing time. She's already done that. Link's triforce is already actively generating friendship,


IIRC, for someone not in this fight, which means neither Link or Ganon have any protection to TC, see my supposition above.

quote:

Claiming it automaticly works on something like the triforce, which we have evidence actively resists such crap, is a no limit fallacy.


Well, firstly you havn't got evidence it'll actively resist it or you'd have posted it by now and secondly you still haven't proven it would resist harder than a drunk girl on prom night.


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Old Post Mar 11th, 2010 10:14 PM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

quote:
So basically, you have no idea what powers it may or may not have and have no way of proving it'll do anything other than one specific thing that requires them to wish for, correct?
Wrong. I just explained the difference.

quote:
Correct. If however, you make a rope which I then steal and proceed to squash into an atom-sized ball along with a butt load more rope I just have lying around, I am more powerful than you.
Coiling the rope does not make you more powerful than the one who created the rope, it just shows you have the ability to manipulate the rope.

quote:
Well, firstly you havn't got evidence it'll actively resist it or you'd have posted it by now and secondly you still haven't proven it would resist harder than a drunk girl on prom night.
It does this all the time in it's seperate pieces, why would it stop when it's at it's full power? This is *your* assertion, you have to prove that.


__________________

The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 11th, 2010 10:19 PM
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Sin_Volvagia
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Ganon turns her into a fish. no expression /thread.


Ganon never turned anyone into a fish.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SpadeKing
Ultimecia turns him into a frog no expression


I think you mean she absorbs him. Ganondorf has no love and friendship.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
stick out tongue

The triforce doesn't require a spell to do it's job. cool Though it can amp Ganon's already blatantly awesome spellcasting ability.

All in all, I see no way for Ultimecia to counter a reality warper.


Ultimecia is the reality warper. Ganondorf is just a wizard who got amped by the Triforce of Power. He's not even at Rinoa's level let alone Ultimecia.

And the Triforce has done nothing to prove that it dwarfs FF's top tiers.

This is might as well be Ultimecia & Squall vs. Link because Ganondorf is getting absorbed with his Triforce going with him. Without the Triforce of Power, the Trueforce ceases to exist.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:01 AM
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The Scenario
Greater Sci-Fi combatant

Gender: Unspecified
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Ganon's turned people into pink bunnies, bouncy balls, and monsters. A fish is not out of the question.

Also, wizards, by definition, warp reality every time they cast a spell, so the title doesn't exactly mean much.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:08 AM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

quote:
This is might as well be Ultimecia & Squall vs. Link because Ganondorf is getting absorbed with his Triforce going with him. Without the Triforce of Power, the Trueforce ceases to exist.
Read the OP. They both have the whole triforce.

There's no way to say Ultimecia could even absorb Ganon with the triforce. She's never done anything like that.


__________________

The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:09 AM
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Sin_Volvagia
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

QUOTE=12576679]Originally posted by The Scenario
Ganon's turned people into pink bunnies, bouncy balls, and monsters. A fish is not out of the question.[/QUOTE]

That's what the Dark World did under the effect of the Triforce. That's why Ganondorf is a giant anthropomorphic pig in LttP.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Read the OP. They both have the whole triforce.

There's no way to say Ultimecia could even absorb Ganon with the triforce. She's never done anything like that.


1. There's only one Triforce.

2. Ultimecia could absorb all of reality. The Triforce and the 3 goddesses would get absorbed as well.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:29 AM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

quote:
1. There's only one Triforce.

2. Ultimecia could absorb all of reality. The Triforce and the 3 goddesses would get absorbed as well.

1. In this thread, there's 2.
2. Negative. You assume they would, but there's no reason they would be absorbed, especially since by virtue of creating time itself, the goddesses and the triforce exist outside of it, and have greater power over time than Ultimecia.
She's never absorbed anything that powerful, or anythign that could fight back. The triforce can fight back, and is more powerful in time than she is, as well as exists outside of it, and transcends it. (See TP.)
To say Ultimecia can absorb the power of the goddess of time, while having never absorbed anything like that in her own game is a no-limit fallacy and a baseless assumption. You. Cannot. Prove that assertion.


__________________

The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:35 AM
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Sin_Volvagia
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
1. In this thread, there's 2.
2. Negative. You assume they would, but there's no reason they would be absorbed, especially since by virtue of creating time itself, the goddesses and the triforce exist outside of it, and have greater power over time than Ultimecia.
She's never absorbed anything that powerful, or anythign that could fight back. The triforce can fight back, and is more powerful in time than she is, as well as exists outside of it, and transcends it. (See TP.)
To say Ultimecia can absorb the power of the goddess of time, while having never absorbed anything like that in her own game is a no-limit fallacy and a baseless assumption. You. Cannot. Prove that assertion.


She was absorbing everything except the protagonists. She's easily one of the most powerful vg characters.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:39 AM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

quote:
She was absorbing everything except the protagonists. She's easily one of the most powerful vg characters.

I can actually name many who are more powerful, or who she'd just flat out lose to because her most powerful ability has such a silly weakness. But yeah, she is powerful.

Also, there's no clear indication how big her universe even was, onscreen, some stars and planets aren't even as big as Squall.


__________________

The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:41 AM
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Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Gender: Male
Location: The End

quote:
Coiling the rope does not make you more powerful than the one who created the rope, it just shows you have the ability to manipulate the rope.


If you used you hands(magical talent) to mold clay(magical power) into a construct(time) and then I came alone and used my hands(magical talent) to mold the clay(magical power) shaped into a construct(time) into a much, much harder to create form all the while doing this simultaneously with every single piece of clay ever to exist as well as everything else to have ever to exist, I have proven myself the superior craftsman(/God)

Some people say that it is harder to create(say, a castle) then to destroy(a castle) but I think that is far harder than both put together to squeeze a castle into the size of an atom.

Do I need to make more analogies or have I convinced you yet?

quote:
It does this all the time in it's seperate pieces, why would it stop when it's at it's full power? This is *your* assertion, you have to prove that.


Becuase it becomes a vastly different thing with a different powerset, so we don't know if it'll still work teh same way as the old parts used to. If you'll permit me another analogy, its like fuzing a TV, a radio and a radiator together to create something even more powerful and useful, but when you fuze something together it becomes fundementally different and you might not be able to watch LOST anymore. 'Might'.

But of course theres the fact that you need to prove that something can do something before it can do it, and teh Triforce hasn't proven in anyway that it'll passively protect the team from TC, or that even if it could that it would be able to.

/thread.


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 12:46 AM
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LLLLLink
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sin_Volvagia
She was absorbing everything except the protagonists. She's easily one of the most powerful vg characters.


Did she ever actually complete a Time Compression at any point?


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 01:18 AM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

The only important thing he said:
quote:
But of course theres the fact that you need to prove that something can do something before it can do it, and teh Triforce hasn't proven in anyway that it'll passively protect the team from TC, or that even if it could that it would be able to.


You're the one assuming the triforce loses this ability when it's completed, that's your assertion.


__________________

The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 01:20 AM
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Phanteros
the Shade knight

Gender: Male
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Triforce of Wisdom isn't in this thread so how can trueforce be even made?


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Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 01:44 AM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

The full triforce is in this thread, twice. no expression


__________________

The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 01:45 AM
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Phanteros
the Shade knight

Gender: Male
Location: The spire of the shadows

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
The full triforce is in this thread, twice. no expression
Where is this stated in the Op. They need Zelda's triforce to make Trueforce.


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fear the shade Knight

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 01:48 AM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

Gender: Male
Location: 1/9.7'rd Horseman of the Apocalypse

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Phanteros
Where is this stated in the Op. They need Zelda's triforce to make Trueforce.


"Both at their canon strongest"

At their canon strongest, both Link and Ganon possessed the entire triforce.


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The moon and stars aren't just shades of lead

But you wouldn't know as you rest your head.

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 01:49 AM
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FinalAnswer
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They are at their canon strongest.


At their strongest, they possessed the Trueforce.


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Howdy!

Old Post Mar 12th, 2010 01:50 AM
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