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Mordor vs Spartans and Mongols
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Omnislash Kid
I did not Mordor him!

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Mordor vs Spartans and Mongols

No Nazgul or fell beasts.

Leaders are Genghis Kahn and Leonidas.
Who takes this?


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Old Post May 19th, 2010 04:02 AM
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Hewhoknowsall
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Depends.

Does Mordor get Sauron?
Does Mordor get its allies?
Are these the movie Spartans or historical Spartans

If 1 is true, team likely loses.
If 2 and 3 are true...well, team might win, but those mumakil were pretty beast...I don't see how the team can stop them from just rampaging Sparta. The Mongol Empire lwould then stand alone against Mordor...I'm not sure who would win though.
If 2 is true and 3 is false, then again, mumakil run over Sparta and now it's Mordor vs the Mongol Empire, in which I'm not sure of the result.
If 3 is true and 2 is false, then the team has a very good chance of winning. Those spartans were pretty awesome.


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Old Post May 19th, 2010 07:39 PM
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Grate the Vraya
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Depends.

Does Mordor get Sauron?
Does Mordor get its allies?
Are these the movie Spartans or historical Spartans

If 1 is true, team likely loses.
If 2 and 3 are true...well, team might win, but those mumakil were pretty beast...I don't see how the team can stop them from just rampaging Sparta. The Mongol Empire lwould then stand alone against Mordor...I'm not sure who would win though.
If 2 is true and 3 is false, then again, mumakil run over Sparta and now it's Mordor vs the Mongol Empire, in which I'm not sure of the result.
If 3 is true and 2 is false, then the team has a very good chance of winning. Those spartans were pretty awesome.
I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if 3 is true. I think Mordor would win, just because of the fear that they would cause because they are so obviously supernatural.


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Old Post May 19th, 2010 11:02 PM
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Omnislash Kid
I did not Mordor him!

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Historical Spartan's. The 300 Spartan's were badass but because of my love for history I have to go with historical ones. Also, it is bias of me because I also picked historical Spartan's > 300 since I'm using historical Mongol's, which one seems right.

Well, even with Sauron and allies I would give the battle an approximate range of 50-50 victory/loss outcome between the two forces.
Scenario: Sauron and allies are in the fight along with Mordor against the worlds ex-largest Empire and what is also considered to be the greatest force of their time, as well as a force that people also believe to be the greatest warriors of all time.
So, Spartan's lead in a compact phalanx, as usual, with Mongol's behind them ready for the command from Leonidas (or Genghis Kahn) to send a barrage of arrows to Mordor's first lines and have the Spartan's go in. Spartan's take what's in front of them with Mongol's destroying any ranks in front of the ranks of newly-slaughtered by the Spartan's.
First battle goes to Spartan's and Mongol's.
Mordor, lead by foolish orcs and such, ready for another battle. This time bringing in trolls.
Spartan's, being strategic geniuses, know that these monsters will spread their defense and have it crumble, leading to it's downfall. This time Mongols infantry charges in, covered by Mongol archers. They take out a vast majority of Mordor's ranks and leave gaps in their defense (what is left of the first massive wave that is). They then strike down the trolls over a period of time. With little arrows left the use what they have on the next orc invasion and Spartan's clean up with the help of more Mongol infantry. Mongol's down by about a few hundred infantry, and depleted arrows.
With the amount of prep time that both Mordor and the Mongol/ Spartan force have, they re-supply arrows and such and wait, knowing that invading Mordor would give them home advantage and that both phalanx, Mongol infantry, archers, and other formations (Spartan's) would be negated because of the area as well as it being a fortress. After all, neither Mongol's nor Spartan's were siege war fighters. This is probably why they were extremely successful warriors.
In one last battle, both sides give it their all.
Outcome, Mongol's and Spartan's win by a notable amount.

If Mongol's were to do this alone they would have been swarmed and lost. Spartan's would have fallen as well because of the trolls. So, the two forces perfect each other, and win.

Though, that's just my opinion. I mainly give this to them because of much more quality warriors and strategists as well as Mongol's having a good amount of troops the even without Spartan's, would frighten Mordor. Even with Spartan's having only around 600 soldiers, their quality is amazing, and would take all a large majority of Mordor's forces to overwhelm them without trolls. but since this was not the scenario, they lucked out.

OP gives this to Mongol's and Spartan's.


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Old Post May 20th, 2010 09:27 AM
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Omnislash Kid
I did not Mordor him!

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Location: Star Forge

Though, if scenario two would be mumakil with Mordor and allies, then I think they could still win but Spartan's in the end would be reduced to near zero, if not zero, and Mongol's forces are lower than 1/4 in the end. Close battle if mumakil are in.


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Old Post May 20th, 2010 09:44 AM
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Actually, you do have a good point; the team certainly has much better leadership.


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Old Post May 20th, 2010 11:27 PM
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The Spartan forces would quickly be overwhelmed. Then would follow a long and drawn out conflict on the steppes, where attrition would kill more of Saurons forces then battle. The Mongols would do frequent raids which would keep the advancing columns demoralized. Due to the Nomadic lifestyle of the Mongols the forces of Mordor struggle to influence much control over any of the lands they may march through.

Sauron forces would eventually withdraw, with the best part of his forces destroyed. Over the following years Mongol raids would have a devastating effect on Mordors allies, with many of their cities left burnt to the ground.

Finally Mordor stands alone. The Mongol hoards would sweep across the plains of Nurn, and outmaneuver any forces of Mordor which are sent to hinder them. The combination of excellent horse archery and hand canons would even stop the powerful mumakil with casualties being largely one sided.

Losing Nurn would have a devastating effect on Mordors food supply, Sauron would likely order for Barad-dur to be fully stocked and gathered his best forces around him. The next spring, the Mongols would likely advance on Barad-dur itself, which would be placed under siege. A steady stream of canon fire would weaken the even impreesive fortifications of Barad-dur. Smaller mongol forces would be spared to keep watch upon the black gate and Minas Morgul to guard against any attack launched from these fortresses.

With his fortress crumbling and supplies low Sauron himself would lead the final charge....

Old Post Jun 21st, 2011 09:24 PM
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The_Innkeeper
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If Sauron was forced back into Mordor, then a seige probably wouldn't work. The Orcs can breed incredibly quickly and don't really have an issue with cannibalism. So there is the ability to quickly rebuild an army whilst also having sufficient food.

It depends really on the numbers. If Sauron unleashed everything he had I think he could pretty much nail it. The Spartans were good against the Persians due to the tactical advantage of a bottleneck where numbers weren't important. The Spartans were a damn good fighting force but they did lose, they lost against Thebes, they lost against Athens etc. On the plains of Mordor, there isn't really anywhere to gain a tactical advantage, numbers are everything.

As for the Mongols, a lot of their victories came from just not giving a shit. They were the forefathers of chemical warfare, throwing diseased bodies and stuff over the walls of cities they had laid seige to. I don't think orcs would be too bothered if a semi-rotten or diseased corpse was thrown over the walls of Mordor, if the catapults could manage it that is.

You also make a point of supplies being low. I think Mordor was fairly self sufficient, as I can't see too many places on Middle Earth wanting to trade with it. Surely some trade occured but if we are to suggest the Mongols and Spartans are outside the black gate then that's an ineffective seige as no trade would be coming that way anyway. I also think it is pretty impossible for any force to completely seige the entirity of Mordor.

Also, the cannon fire point, I don't think that would really effect Barad-Dur. I'd put a rampaging Ent blow at stronger than an archaic cannon blast, and an Ent couldn't even dEnt (see what I did there?) Orthanc. I'd put Barad-Dur much higher than Orthanc on the 'able to withstand a pounding' scale. Plus, the cannon blast wouldn't reach Barad-Dur unless the Mongols were already in Mordor, unless they have mightily advanced their weapons and have gotten the angle just right to fire into the air.

So, due to better numbers, the ability to sustain heavy losses and continue to create armies, the steady availability of food, the ineffectiveness of two Mongol-Spartan tactics (bottleneck and chemical warfare) in the situation - I'm going to have to go for Mordor.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2011 05:33 PM
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Birch_Tree
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Mordor gets its food from the farm lands around the Sea of Rhun, such open plains is where the Mongels operated most effectively. Mongols greatest effectiveness was not in biological warfare, it was that there armies were highly mobile, able to cover 100km a day, they could even sleep when mounted if pressed. They were also highly disciplined and well commanded.

I beleive there is no evidence, but I highly doubt that Orcs can breed that fast. Probably would still take 10 or so years for a baby to mature into a adult and join the front line. A population can not really increase in numbers if they rely on cannibalism for food. Also a large part of Mordors armies were Humans so are vulnerable to biological warfare.

Barad-Dur lasted seven years under siege so it does hold substantial supplies, during that time Sauron sent sent many sorties against the attackers. He also casted Missiles and fire from the tower which caused the Alliance to suffer heavy losses.

While I agree that Canon fire is unlikely to damage the structure of Barad-Dur it would certainly have a demoralizing effect on its lesser occupants. Wither the Mongols would have the numbers to Mantain the siege for several years I am not so certain.... but I do beleive they have the potential to overrun Mordor allies in the east and the plains of Rhun....

Their early canons would also have a devastating effect on Trolls and Oliphants when faced on the field.


I do not beleive the Spartans would survive long against Mordor, They might number 6000 soldiers when at the peak of their power? They were also vulnerable to arrow fire and a charge of Oliphants and Trolls would likely break their lines.

Old Post Jun 25th, 2011 05:04 AM
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I suppose it would be worthwhile, to try and work out how many troops Sauron could field. Assuming both sides took all there forces to one massive battle.

Searching through the online sources and it seems around 18,000 Haradrim, 7000 Variags and 20,000 Orcs were present at the battle of Pelennor Field... but that might be conservative... So it could have numbered 50-60,000.

There was also atleast 100,000 which remained behind in Mordor. Plus Sauron attacked Greenwood, Lorien and the Lonely Mountain. I do not know the size of these forces... BUt maybe another 100,000.

So at a guess Mordor could field 300,000 soldiers.

It is claimed that one of Genghis Khan's largest invasion forces numbered 200,000. Uncertain how many he had in reserve.

So the Allies would field.
6000 Spartans mainly on foot.
40,000 Mongols on foot.
160,000 Mongols mostly on horse back.

Mordor.
180,000 Orcs mainly on Foot.
120,000 Humans, mostly mounted Haradrim and Variags.

Now these numbers involved quite a bit of guesswork and speculation. Would be a bloody battle. I feel Mongolians were better and more disciplined horsemen then the Haradrim and Variags... I might have to give the edge to the Allies...

Last edited by Birch_Tree on Jun 25th, 2011 at 05:30 AM

Old Post Jun 25th, 2011 05:26 AM
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