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Belief in Jesus does not mean he isn't worthless and contemptible, it just means he won't be punished for how awful and profane he is. The issues of self-loathing (which is what started this) isn't avoided.
A likelihood function.
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
Yes, Christians see themselves as sinners even though they've been saved. This isn't something new, more importantly it doesn't contradict my claim. Reread the segment you quoted and note that the context of it is eternal suffering, and not sinfulness.
No, this is wrong. Everyone is going to hell if Jesus never existed. Since it was always part of God's plan for Jesus to suffer an infinite amount, while in the flesh, for our sins, then your statement that everyone is going to hell is wrong.
Also, a minority of Christians believe in original sin.
And, it is not enough to just say "LORD! LORD!" to get to heaven. You have to be genuinely converted. Genuine conversion requires you genuinely try to not sin anymore (God is the judger of what constitutes "Genuine"). Sure, you can be forgiven of your sins...and there is only one unforgivable sin. But it is not the pretty picture you paint that absolves you of your actions. You make it seem like Christians are pop-psy liberals who think we are not responsible for our actions.
Well, no. Genuinely become converted is what you're looking for. You're not genuinely converted if you continue to rape, murder, steal, lie, cheat, adulterate, etc. Unless, of course, you have a genuine problem in those areas that is near impossible to overcome in the flesh...and God will be the judger of that.
One could genuinely believe that Jesus wants them to murder people.
Less glibly: How closely must ones beliefs be to the one true dogma in order for it to count? Presumably I'm going to hell for various deliberate and accidentally blasphemies but what about my Presbyterian mother or my Jewish aunt? (I'm not related to religious men, apparently)
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
That's for God to judge but...it is documented that He specifically does not want you to murder.
Note: I am a Mormon and we don't believe Joshua was justified in the utter destruction of Jericho. We generally think something was lost in translation along the way or something is missing. Some Christians say that they knowingly sinned by sacrificing their children to false gods and were warned that they would be destroyed for doing so...and not a single soul in that relatively massive city was innocent. I just cannot believe that unless the idea of Christian-reincarnation is real (meaning, the children, who were clearly innocent, were killed but given another life-chance). Surely there were plenty of innocent children? Well, the Christian apologists have an apologetic to my complaint, as well: those children were saved by Christ's grace which is given to all man, freely. Since God commanded it, it was done in righteousness. Well, my argument then becomes, "Oh, so if God gives you a fundemetnal commandment to NOT kill, then commands you to kill, it's okay to kill? How do you know the person receiving the God-commands is right? How do you know that it was the Holy Spirit that told you it was right? One Name: David Koresh." Which has led me to believe God is far more deistic than most people think.
Marginally close but not exact. Not even Mormons, who believe we are close as possible to having a line to God, believe we are perfect in our beliefs and faith (meaning, the teachings, dogma, and precepts we hold as true are not perfect and have many human-caused flaws). We also believe that all man has a naturally programmed "do right" mechanism. Some blame genetics and our evolutionary nature and others say it is the Holy Spirit helping subtly along the way. I think it is both and it could be more than the other depending on the person.
But, I honestly think, as do many Christians, that a good Jew is just as worthy as a good Mormon, good Atheist, good Shamanist, and so forth. Also, every Christian should believe that what they hold as right and wrong, they will be judged by that (because that is what it says in the NT). So if you genuinely believe that it is wrong to pray towards the west and you pray towards the west, that is a sin. Sure, you and I may think such a belief is absurd, but it is not our belief.
the bit about accepting the lord jesus christ was in my 2nd point. I understand of course that interpretations of scripture vary widely and most contemporary christians do not uphold the fundamentalist views prevalent among pentecostal protestants I was addressing.
they are more than 50% of the global christianfold. you are correct that most contemporary catholics do not hold on to original sin doctrines any longer, however.
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Apr 7th, 2013 02:15 AM
