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Alex Mercer vs DMC4 demons
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The Scenario
Greater Sci-Fi combatant

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Even Metroid has the decency to specify that Samus' ice weapons are merely near Absolute Zero. In the same scan with the fully automatic nuclear explosion launcher, no less.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 05:27 PM
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FinalAnswer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRain
Then apparently Dante and higher demons are stronger then this.



no expression

Dude, no.

Not only have you yet to provide feats proving it is indeed lower then absolute zero, NO being in DMC has shown to being able to resist against absolute zero.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 05:53 PM
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BloodRain
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@SP- The most basic things of super strength, speed and flight are impossible in real life, and if the impossible is the norm in game worlds anything beyond would only seem impossible.
[Like if Sonic runs through a town at over Mach speeds it 'should' be damaged by him and so should the ground from where he accelerates at by laws, and this is literally impossible without and explanation.]

Will take too long to find that exact quote in the original translations so if someone wants to try be my guest. Well they are the strongest under the sub-boss class.

Magic isnt backed by science and usually goes above/past/around it.

@FS- Didn't you hear what I said the last time? Unless they're important bosses there wont me many feats on them, Frosts are only high-normals so there wont be much besides what I've already said; impervious to volcanoes. Ice not effected by 1500C is more then enough for Mercer. Besides the frozen animations from Cerberus and the Frogs who cant be far from this and has resisted hellfire at least twicc (one particular heat is enough to destroy Frosts) so has a large temperature scale but its not point really as this ice can take down Alex.. the point to this thread.

To sum up as I know it will be ask again, magic can go past real world limits and if someone can prove that statement of them wrong then by all means. Nor is this really worth arguing against or for erm


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 06:29 PM
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ScreamPaste
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quote:
@SP- The most basic things of super strength, speed and flight are impossible in real life, and if the impossible is the norm in game worlds anything beyond would only seem impossible.
[Like if Sonic runs through a town at over Mach speeds it 'should' be damaged by him and so should the ground from where he accelerates at by laws, and this is literally impossible without and explanation.]
This is only "a little" impossible. no expression It has a reason to be this way. sonic is a good guy, and destroying cities is not his thing. Also, depending on how gradually he accellerates, he could avoid damaging the ground.

Also, super strength and durability don't break any laws of physics.

The Frost thing is wholly different. It's just ridiculous for no reason.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 06:32 PM
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BloodRain
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
This is only "a little" impossible. no expression It has a reason to be this way. sonic is a good guy, and destroying cities is not his thing. Also, depending on how gradually he accellerates, he could avoid damaging the ground.

Also, super strength and durability don't break any laws of physics.

The Frost thing is wholly different. It's just ridiculous for no reason.


Yeah three things that are physically impossibly are are so normal that it isn't even questioned. And those are the basic things out there. It doesnt matter if he's good, bad or wasted if something moves over Mach speeds through a city there will be damages. He doesnt usually start off slow for no reason, and I've seen him accelerate at blinding speeds before.

Those two would be a biological issue, the physics part would be from what happens from/with them.

So are a few Pokemon's dex strength feats, ridiculous for no reason but are not objected to and are used as legit thing feats even with no proof or reason.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 06:49 PM
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ScreamPaste
Carpe Noctem

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah three things that are physically impossibly are are so normal that it isn't even questioned. And those are the basic things out there. It doesnt matter if he's good, bad or wasted if something moves over Mach speeds through a city there will be damages. He doesnt usually start off slow for no reason, and I've seen him accelerate at blinding speeds before.

Those two would be a biological issue, the physics part would be from what happens from/with them.

So are a few Pokemon's dex strength feats, ridiculous for no reason but are not objected to and are used as legit thing feats even with no proof or reason.
you're missing the point.

Sonic not causing damage has a reason, and in some cases is averted. (SA:2B, just running by cars sends them flying.)
Kratos not flying over the horizon when Zeus hits him.

These make sense, althoguht they shouldn't happen, because it'd cause problems.

Frosts being "beyond absolute zero" only causes problems, and it is beyond impossible to be colder than abZero. It's the total cessation of all movement. There's nothing left to take from it.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 06:55 PM
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BloodRain
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
you're missing the point.

Sonic not causing damage has a reason, and in some cases is averted. (SA:2B, just running by cars sends them flying.)
Kratos not flying over the horizon when Zeus hits him.

These make sense, althoguht they shouldn't happen, because it'd cause problems.

Frosts being "beyond absolute zero" only causes problems, and it is beyond impossible to be colder than abZero. It's the total cessation of all movement. There's nothing left to take from it.


The effects not happening still counts even if they had their reasons. Sonic not destroying everything, Kratos not doing a NASA on all he hits, and mostly pkmn that can move and destroy mountains based on dex entries and no evidence or reason all in their own way fit into this.
Normal ice at 0C melts at 0C (and boils at 100C, yay for that first science lesson), this ice isn't effected in the slightest at 1500C heat.

Would say something on that strength/biology thing but its making me remember an.. extremely long argument I had on it with a friend >_<;
Side note- Absolute hot is.. hot o.o


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 07:22 PM
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FinalAnswer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRain
@FS- Didn't you hear what I said the last time? Unless they're important bosses there wont me many feats on them, Frosts are only high-normals so there wont be much besides what I've already said; impervious to volcanoes. Ice not effected by 1500C is more then enough for Mercer. Besides the frozen animations from Cerberus and the Frogs who cant be far from this and has resisted hellfire at least twicc (one particular heat is enough to destroy Frosts) so has a large temperature scale but its not point really as this ice can take down Alex.. the point to this thread.

To sum up as I know it will be ask again, magic can go past real world limits and if someone can prove that statement of them wrong then by all means. Nor is this really worth arguing against or for erm


So there is no actual feats of Absolute Zero? k.

A being with absolute zero would freeze over a volcano.

So, wait, are you saying absolute zero is canon to frosts? Or what?


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 07:39 PM
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The Scenario
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Absolute Zero is more of a time stop than a temperature effect. With absolutely no energy, it would be impossible for anything to move, including atoms. Absolute Zero would stop light. If one object reaches it, well, the entire universe would have to freeze in order to maintain it. An object like that would have to be cut off from the rest of the universe or in a closed system else it would absorb heat and no longer be Absolute Zero.

The Frosts might have once been Absolute Zero in a realm where physics are different, but the moment they entered the universe they would absorb heat and stop being Absolute Zero.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 07:41 PM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRain
If its measured as Absolute Zero then that term came from the human world.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRain
Then again things that come the demon world are different from the human world, who says that things don't work different for things from there.



Like the others have said, if it were even Absolute Zero, it would steal heat from everything in its vicinity and thus freeze even the environment and the air. That doesn't happen when they are in the human world.


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Last edited by Demonic Phoenix on Jun 24th, 2010 at 07:53 PM

Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 07:44 PM
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NemeBro
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The quote says the temp is "beyond" Absolute Zero.

That means that the temperature is above it.

Semantics brah.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 08:08 PM
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BloodRain
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
So there is no actual feats of Absolute Zero? k.

A being with absolute zero would freeze over a volcano.

So, wait, are you saying absolute zero is canon to frosts? Or what?

Besides an in-game statement on them. And no not if they can control the ice like they can.

..wait, what?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Like the others have said, if it were even Absolute Zero, it would steal heat from everything in its vicinity and thus freeze even the environment and the air. That doesn't happen when they are in the human world.

Not sure what the two quotes were for. The realm they're from is different to out, but the labels and facts on them did not come from that realm. And it wouldnt be freeze everything unintentionally if they, being beings of ice with a high level of control, can control the ice.


A big deals being made over nothing confused


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 08:09 PM
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NemeBro
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DUNT IGNORE ME YOU ****ER!!!

Also, what is up with the emo pseudo-nihilistic statement under your sig?

Just saw it.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 08:49 PM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
The quote says the temp is "beyond" Absolute Zero.

That means that the temperature is above it.

Semantics brah.


On the negative scale, X being 'beyond' Y would mean that Y is greater than X.
Much like -5 is beyond -3.

That's how I view it.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRain
Besides an in-game statement on them. And no not if they can control the ice like they can.

..wait, what?


Not sure what the two quotes were for. The realm they're from is different to out, but the labels and facts on them did not come from that realm. And it wouldnt be freeze everything unintentionally if they, being beings of ice with a high level of control, can control the ice.


A big deals being made over nothing confused


They have to be extremely good thermo-kinetics if the environment doesn't freeze over due to their temperature.
If they are extreme thermo-kinetics, they should be able to do a lot more than just form basic ice-weapons.

The only thing we have is them being immune to Volcanic temperatures, which aren't very extreme.
Granted, you do have a point about Mercer not being able to melt them, but he can just absorb them and use their abilities.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 08:53 PM
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The Scenario
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Thermokinetic. Basically means "moving the temperature." Then cryokinetic for "moving the ice." The thing is, stuff at Absolute Zero simply does not move. No energy, no movement. It just doesn't work.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 08:59 PM
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BloodRain
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
DUNT IGNORE ME YOU ****ER!!!

Also, what is up with the emo pseudo-nihilistic statement under your sig?

Just saw it.

Oh that was to me? My bad, DP's got it covered.

Its a quote from The Way of Shadows, from an assassin.. urm 'wetboy' to his disciple to bring him into the business.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They have to be extremely good thermo-kinetics if the environment doesn't freeze over due to their temperature.
If they are extreme thermo-kinetics, they should be able to do a lot more than just form basic ice-weapons.

The only thing we have is them being immune to Volcanic temperatures, which aren't very extreme.
Granted, you do have a point about Mercer not being able to melt them, but he can just absorb them and use their abilities.


Elites with great control of their powers, possibly. Hey ice that isn't phased at 1500C is damn cold.

Its not him being able to melt them, its them being able to freezeKo him.

@Scenario- To be fair its not like we have organisms that are at that temperature (being a fiction and all) to say they cant move.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 09:14 PM
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Sin_Volvagia
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Mercer can defeat every enemy in the game (though the Blitz are gonna take a while to kill). Berial and Dagon/Bael are the only ones who can stop Mercer. Berial when pissed off unleashes a dome of hellfire and his fight with Nero reduced an abandoned mining camp to almost nothing. Bael/Dagon can freeze Mercer.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2010 11:44 PM
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Nusa105
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The answer is No


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