Ok, I just recently rewatched all of the Batman films, from Burton to Nolan. I realized that my rankings had been based on vague memories I had of the films. So I rewatched them to make my decision. I'll be ranking them based on PLOT, VILLAINS, ATMOSPHERE, BATMAN, and OVERALL. Note that these are my personal opinions, so don't flame me based on it. But if you insist, I won't stop you from trying... Anyway here we go:
PLOT
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman
3. Batman Begins
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman and Robin
This is what I came across: Joker terrorizing Gotham just makes for an intense movie. Whether it's trying to prove that chaos can corrupt even the most noble (TDK) or just that he's the better of two "freaks" (B89), Batman vs. Joker is the definitive Batman tale, and the top 2 plots prove it.
VILLAINS
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Returns
3. Batman
4. Batman Begins
5. Batman and Robin
6. Batman Forever
Is the first choice surprising? No. The rest? Maybe. I just felt like the characters in Returns were better than Begins or B89. The plot was in the bottom three, but the reason that was a good film is because of the characters. Penguin was a lonely man who was driven to crime by a society who didn't accept him. It made the character relevant again. Catwoman was everything Catwoman should be. Shreck was a seedy industrialist looking to drain the life out of a depressed city. If the plot were better, then Returns might have been the best of them all, and I truly believe that. Forever is at the bottom (instead of B&R) because Two-Face is the worst character out of all of the movies. He's literally the worst villain in Batman movie history. At least B&R had Poison Ivy to save it somewhat.
ATMOSPHERE
1. Batman
2. Batman Returns
3. Batman Begins
4. The Dark Knight
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman and Robin
Say what you will about Tim Burton's films, but he and Anton Furst made, for me, the definitive Gotham City. I LOVE the atmosphere of the first Batman movie. Everything works. The city, the car, the buildings, the modern-40s hybrid, it all just works. Hats off to Burton and Furst for making Gotham City real. Begins felt more "Gotham-like" than TDK, which felt like New York City, to me. It didn't feel like Gotham at all.
BATMAN
1. Batman Begins
2. Batman Returns
3. The Dark Knight
4. Batman
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman and Robin
This one may surprise you. I felt like Christian Bale's performance in Begins 100% tops his performance in TDK. No question, imo. And his Bat-voice was better, too. I also felt Keaton's 2nd performance was better than Bale's TDK performance. If Keaton had gotten a couple more scenes in both films (Returns, especially) maybe he'd be the best of them all. I felt like Bale in TDK was boring and didn't bring much to the role. TDK would have soared above the rest if Bale had given a performance comparable to his Begins one. Kilmer played a terrible Batman, but his surprisingly good Bruce Wayne saved him here. Clooney had the misfortune of having a terrible director and script. I think he'd have been ok if he were given even the Forever script to work with. He's a good actor being put in a bad situation. Like Ahnuld and Uma Thurman.
OVERALL/FINAL
For this one, I tallied up scores from the previous 4 categories. 1st place gets 5 points, 2nd place 4, 3rd place gets 3, 4th place gets 2, 5th place gets 1, and 6th place gets 0. Here is the overall rankings now that I've rewatched the films:
1. The Dark Knight (final score = 15)
T2. Batman/Batman Returns (final scores = 14)
4. Batman Begins (final score = 13)
5. Batman Forever (final score = 3)
6. Batman and Robin (final score = 1)
No surprise here, The Dark Knight is the best of the best in Batman film land. However, 2nd place is shared by Burton's movies, which still hold up as great films in their own right. Begins comes in 4th, showing that despite it's ranking, it's still a great movie (shown by it's high score). Forever is a distant 5th, proving that despite it having the WORST villain, it's not the worst film. And no surprise, Batman and Robin is the worst of the worst in Batman film land.
Keaton having a few more scenes in the movie he might have been the best of them all? thats a bad joke. Thank God for Bale and Nolan to the Batman franchise.Bale is the one and only true Bruce wayne/Batman.
I would say Bale was every bit as good in TDK as he was in Begins.
While its true what you said that Kilmer played a terrible Batman but he saved himself by surprisingly playing a good Bruce Wayne,the same holds true for keaton except its the reverse.He played a horrible Bruce Wayne but surprisingly,he saved himself from being a joke as Batman like George Clooney was because he surprisingly played a good Batman.
I'll talk about the rest of the stuff another time.
For me, Bale's TDK performance felt bland, boring, and uninspired. Keaton's Batman > Bale's TDK Batman. Keaton had that dark, mysterious edge that I love from the early Batman stories. He's like an urban legend in those stories. He evoked what Batman truly is at his core. The dark avenger. The black shadow. The mysterious figure in the night. TDK's Batman was none of that. He felt more like a secret agent, imo. He was still much better than Kilmer and Clooney's God awful Batmen, but he slipped behind Keaton with that performance, imo.
His Begins Batman is near perfect, though. He had that mysterious edge that I love, while also having the "billionaire playboy" Bruce that was so prevalent in the comics. Keaton's Bruce was a totally different Bruce. A psychotic Bruce. A brooding Bruce. An obsessed Bruce. Again, much like Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns version. It's interesting and it's different, but not what the fans were really looking for. It's still a great interpretation, though.
I stand by my thought that if we transplanted Alec Baldwin's Lamont Cranston (from The Shadow) into Batman 1989 and Batman Returns (while keeping those movies' Batman and plot), those movies would be near perfect (minus some questionable tactics by Batman).
see YOUR opinion I have no problem with on the critisizing of Bale for the The Dark Knight.Im sure you know that wasnt directed at you.It was directed at Miss uneducated jeoulous of Bale girl.Others like Impediment have said the same thing you did,that they loved his acting in Begins but did not care for it either in TDK.so I got no problem with people like yourself and Impediment who give constructive criticism of him like that of his performance in performance in TDK.Different strokes for different folks.Its just ignorant comments likes hers who have NOTHING to back them up on without reasons I DO have a problem with.You listed your reasons for not caring for him in TDK.I dont agree with it.but I got no problem with them either.
PLOT
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. Batman
4. Batman Forever
5. Batman Returns
6. Batman and Robin
The first pick is obvious. Batman Begins takes the second place because it did a perfect job at explaining and showing everything about Batman. Batman '89, as the third pick, is just a regular Batman vs. Joker film. But the Batman vs. Joker duo is always fun to watch, just like how you said. Batman Returns' story made no sense to me and was all over the place. Forever was a bit more organized in story IMO. And I hope I don't have to get into Batman & Robin.
VILLAINS
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. Batman
4. Batman Returns
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman and Robin
The first choice is not surprising. The second choice is because both of the villains in BB fit into the tone of the film: fear. As for the third choice, Jack's Joker is always fun to watch. I didn't like Returns' villains because Penguin and Catwoman were very far off. Batman Forever had a mediocre Riddler and a TERRIBLE Two-Face. And all the villains sucked in Batman and Robin.
ATMOSPHERE
1. Batman
2. Batman Begins
3. Batman Returns
4. The Dark Knight
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman and Robin
I agree with Bat Dude that Batman '89 had the best atmosphere for Gotham. I didn't like Returns' atmosphere because it was WAY TOO DARK. The movie had to many blacks on whites. It felt more like a Burton movie than a Batman movie. As for Batman Begins, Gotham City looked very dark in that movie. It resembled Year One's Gotham City (I'm a big fan of Year One). The Dark Knight is fourth place because, just as Bat Dude said, it felt more like New York City. Gotham in TDK isn't as dark as it was in Begins. Although this could be due to Gotham being almost clean of criminals at night due to Batman's arrival to Gotham. Batman Forever and Batman & Robin had a retarded kiddish atmosphere.
BATMAN
1. Batman Begins/The Dark Knight
2. Batman/Batman Returns
3. Batman Forever
4. Batman and Robin
I agree that Batman Begins' Batman was perfect. As for The Dark Knight, the reason why you might see him as a "secret agent" is because he doesn't have a lot of scenes where he hides in the dark (like he had in Batman Begins). I didn't have a problem with TDK Batman though (except the voice). I do agree that he should have had more scenes where he hides in the dark. But I'll take TDK Batman over a Batman who kills any day of the week. And you do now that Keaton was not in costume for most of the time, right? As for Forever and B&R, those are obvious terrible performances of Batman.
BRUCE WAYNE
1. The Dark Knight/Batman Begins
2. Batman Forever
3. Batman and Robin
4. Batman/Batman Returns
The first one is obvious. As for the rest, I know that I am going to get so much crap for saying this. Here it goes:
Val Kilmer and George Clooney were terrible as Bruce Wayne (well, Kilmer was an ok Bruce Wayne; but Clooney was terrible). In the comics, Bruce Wayne is supposed to be a spoiled playboy brat. George Clooney DOES suck as Bruce Wayne but at least he has A LITTLE BIT of a playboy personality to him. Keaton played Bruce Wayne the exact opposite of how Bruce Wayne is. He played him as an outcast with no charm who is shy in public. That is why I think Keaton is the worst Bruce Wayne.
*runs away from all the angry faces starring at his post*
Plot:
Dark Knight
Batman
Batman Begins
Batman Returns
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin
Villains:
Batman
The Dark Knight
Batman Returns
Batman Begins
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin
Atmosphere:
Batman
Batman Returns
Batman Begings
Batman Forever
The Dark Knight
Batman and Robin
Batman:
Batman Begins
Batman
Batman Returns
The Dark Knight
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin
Overall (using that score system):
Batman - 18
Batman Begins - 13
The Dark Knight - 12
Batman Returns - 12
Batman Forever - 5
Batman and Robin - 0
I didn't include the 66 one, as it most likely wouldn't have stacked up well. Also, had their been categories for general acting and writing, TDK would have finished much higher...
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Jul 25th, 2010 04:48 AM
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