Crime shouldn't happen, either. Should we keep cops off the street?
Granted that's an extreme comparison, but a fair one, I think. There are situations that shouldn't happen, but do, and we have safeguards in place to prevent them. Repealing those safe guards doesn't make sense if the issue is present.
I actually LOLed at that.
__________________ In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during an interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said:
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out."
Of course sexual assault is not because of culture. What i'm saying is, it's our culture that would cause showering together to create a problem. I already gave the example of aboriginees, but many cultures have existed where nobody wore any clothes at all. They did not have any problems being nude together. Being uncomfortable showering with the other sex is a completely artificial construct.
And here I thought you would use the bonobos vs. common chimpanzees temperaments to counter my point.
Even in the case of those two chimps...I think they rape still occurs among the bonobos, at times...it's just really really really rare.
Would you like to know that rape and molestation is highly common among Australian Aborigine and it goes back "ages" before modern man "poisoned" them with their "civility"? Yes, lots of things are in quotes by I do not intend direct meanings from their use.
In other words, I think you example is shit and it flies directly in the face of your point. However, we could be talking about two different aboriginal peoples. (As I am not aware of any aboriginal peoples that did not have rape or molestation...as that seems universal.)
Hey, don't knock it until you've tried it!
More directly, I REALLY believe the world would be a better place if everyone was more like me.
At this point I think you would have to almost be trying to misunderstand me. I already said (multiple times) that there is a natural tendency for rape to occur. I already said that and you have been ignoring it every time.
What I DID say was that I did not feel there was a natural tendency for NUDITY to provoke sexual assault. I did not know that rape was any more common in aboriginees, some native americans, some south american natives, etc. then there was in a culture where people are clothed. I would definitely appreciate a source if that is your claim here. If you are saying that it is a non-cultural phenomenon for people to not be able to shower with the other gender without there being sexual tension, then we would have to believe that cultures that don't use clothes, rape would be a completely pervasive thing that is constantly going on every day to the extent that it far exceeds anything that is thinkable in western culture.
Um, if it keeps people from being OK with gays in the military (meaning the military actually has less people and is less capable) then it is a definite, empirical weakness to have that attitude towards sexuality.
As this theoretical culture where nudity is no issue isn't pertinent to a realistic discussion of current military policy, perhaps we should save it for another thread?
__________________ In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during an interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said:
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out."
It's very pertinent. It relates to how people would deal with bunking. And they aren't theoretical these are actual, existing cultures i'm talking about.
And you propose this culture could take hold across America in the next year? Or five years?
__________________ In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during an interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said:
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out."
You would need to delve into the psychology of sexual assault, when "male dominance and entitlement" are not even a factor. That'd have to be a very massive, "closed environment" observation and test on humans. How could you even accomplish that? So, put humans, naked, in a shower, and tell me if any of them get raped.
These 'non sequitor points' were my entire argument. You act like i'm going on some kind of tangent here when i'm just saying the same thing as I ever was.
The first source doesn't really prove much because it isn't about aboriginals. The second source is garbage. Reading that site you should have been able to tell, easily, that it is highly biased, evident in the way it demeans all of the contrary arguments, which actual valid journalists just don't do.
I think it would depend on where you got them from.
Jesus christ, this doesn't matter! The culture that Kandy is talking about ISN'T our culture. It's not a culture that can even be implemented in the next twenty to fifty years. It's not relevant! It's an entirely different discussion, with no bearing on the topic.
__________________ In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during an interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said:
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out."
I'm not acting like anything. I didn't address a non-sequitor point as it doesn't get us anywhere.
The first source is to show you how high Australia's rape is on the list...which has an absurd and disproportionate contribution from the aboriginal peoples. (In other words, per capita, the Aboriginals rape a lot more.)
And, it took me all of 30 seconds to find those two links.
And, the second link is not garbage. I know it doesn't fit your points, very well, and that can be frustrating. But, if you're looking for something other than a site trying to bring awareness to crimes, just google search for something...or just talk to a judge, police officer, case-worker, etc. that has jurisdiction over the aboriginal peoples. Or, you could just watch Australian news.
For me, it's common knowledge. I don't know of one person that isn't aware of the horrendous sexual abuses that occur among the Australian Aboriginals. You'd be the first educated, adult I've run into that wasn't aware of that problem.
Well, that's entirely up to you and the psychological community to determine. I will not pretend to be aware of the dynamics of sexual assault. I'll only state that it does exist.
Well, I think we've gotten off of topic, slightly. Just take this away from my posts about this: the Australian Aboriginals are the very worst example you could think of (I can't think of another example that fits what you were trying to convey, in such a bad way. I've been trying and I can't think of another group that makes your point any wronger). Please, select another example to make your point.
You're right. But it does have bearing on this topic.
How can we justify living (which includes showering) facilities of the opposite sex? That came from: gays are attracted to the same sex and not all of the same sex is gay, so how can we justify having the same living facilities for both when we can't justify it for the opposite sex?
See, we must get over this bump of "opposite sex can't, so homosexuals can't for the same reasons."
Well, I think it would have to depend on statistics. I think the US is actually doing a study to determine this shit.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Aug 8th, 2010 at 05:09 AM
I mentioned tons of groups that are nude. It is also VERY pertinent that there is a direct corralation between level of poverty and level of crime... where most indigenous people definitely come up on the short end of the stick. I see no data at all that suggests a similar correlation depending on whether the culture wears clothes.
Also, aboriginals do wear clothes in modern times... so what their current status is regarding sexual abuse is actually aside from the point itself.
Nah, it was "tradition" that carried over after modern man tainted them. Some things persist, even after civility is introduced. I already talked about that, too.
That's not even close to being something you can prove. Poverty and crime rates go hand in hand, and you don't see this as relevant at all to aboriginals? Not only that but you see no parallels with, for instance, blacks in the US and aboriginals?
You talked in other threads about how police are biased in regards to arrest and conviction of African Americans but you show absolutely no sign that you have given any thought to the fact that similar effects exist in Australia... instead you have a source that accuses anyone supporting the aboriginal side of the argument of being "do-gooders", "posturing", committing "emotional blackmail", should "hang their heads in shame", etc... yeah, let's see the "New York Times" use phrases like that, should show you right away that that is not a news source in any way dedicated to professionalism or accuracy.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
I am not sure about the bathroom issue at all, I understand that many women want separate accommodations, however I don't absolutely see the justification for why the government should mandate it. I suppose if statistics show that rapes and assaults increase in places with unisex bathrooms, you might have a justification, but then there'd also need to be research as to what happens with straight/gay bathrooms if it is out in the open. Ideally I'd say that unisex should be the standard though and that is is up to the establishment whether to make separate bathrooms.
Lemme find an expert or some writing on Australian Aboriginals and I'll be right back.
Hahahaha.
No I didn't.
What I DID talk about was some unfair examples and I DID show that African Americans are much more prone to violent crimes (two separate threads.)
It's pretty tough to deal with the facts when there are nay-sayers in the face of massive amounts of rape and molestation. It's despicable behavior for people to try and ignore it. Of course there will be strong language.
And it's quite laughable that you think it loses credibility just because of strong language. That's just ONE article. Just one. I dare you to stop posturing and google search the topic.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Aug 8th, 2010 at 05:00 PM
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Aug 8th, 2010 04:12 AM
