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Sam Fisher runs a H2H Gauntlet
Started by: Demonic Phoenix

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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by XMr. WinterX
so why is Dante here if he hasnt really shown much H2H combat in his series? If this were to have guns it would have a different story.


If Dante were to have his guns, with stats equal to Sam, Sam would still annihilate him


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2010 10:05 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
If Dante were to have his guns, with stats equal to Sam, Sam would still annihilate him
Probably not actually.

Stats equaled means equal reflexes.

Dante's guns can probably blow Sam in half with a grazing blow.


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2010 10:16 PM
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SpadeKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TH3_V01D
Snake outclass Fisher in every area. He was bred for combat since his birth.
Low level superhuman vs generic tough american guy is a bit unfair.


Which is why everyone on here has their stats lowered to Sam's level, wouldn't be fair to fight a guy whose arm you can break and he'll just snap it back in place and be ready to go.

Old Post Aug 30th, 2010 12:21 AM
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XMr. WinterX
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so Dante canīt regenerate?

Old Post Aug 30th, 2010 02:06 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
Probably not actually.

Stats equaled means equal reflexes.

Dante's guns can probably blow Sam in half with a grazing blow.


Dante's guns wouldn't even work. no expression
He likely uses his own demonic power as ammo, rather than actual ammo, which is why he never really reloads.

EDIT:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by XMr. WinterX
so Dante canīt regenerate?
Nope
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
any special abilities they may have are negated


__________________


"To all visitors from Transylvania looking for the head of Voivode Dracula: Yes, we have it. Yes, he's dead. No, you cannot see it. No, he will not return and invade you again. It has been over thirty years, please stop pestering us."

Last edited by Demonic Phoenix on Aug 30th, 2010 at 04:13 AM

Old Post Aug 30th, 2010 04:05 AM
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XMr. WinterX
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ohh confused well atleast we know that Dante is a pretty damn good gunslinger

Old Post Aug 30th, 2010 10:41 PM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CosmicComet
[B]Justify it. You don't get to say one multi-syllable word and feel entitled to a valid point because you said it first. What is telegraphed about Snake's maneuvers? You can't base this shit on silly gameplay animations, you'd have to do it by cutscenes. In which Snake hasn't been clowned/easily intercepted by anyone technique wise, other than Naked Snake being clowned by The Boss initially, who TAUGHT him everything he knows.


The Boss's fighting is just as poor. As is Ocelot's if you by their final fight in GotP. Hell, bring up any cutscene with him doing his CQC and I'll show you how basic and hammed up it is.


quote:
Eyes would tell you that Snake is able to take down and engage more guards in a far quicker amount of time.


Due to the fact that he can absorb bullets and runs around with assault rifles, yeah.


quote:
Yeah I edited as well. I've never got the impression that you were a particularly bright fellow, so it just irks me when people try to feign things and fail at it. Don't do it again.


Don't do what?


quote:
What are you talking about? His parkour abilities? That's not a combat feat. It's a stealth feat.


No. His actual fighting skills. Like, him being a master of krav maga, for example.

quote:
Sam does nothing that Snake doesn't. Snake incorporates Judo-esque throws, crisp striking, various joint locks and quick transitions between the two h2h ranges as well as well gun and knife combinations.


I feel like we're going in circles here. Could you provide some scenes showing Snake's prowess please?


quote:
It seems you've been persuaded by the over-dramatic matrix esque-cutscenes of the Twin Snakes game on gamecube. Silicon Knights redid the first game in a ridiculous fashion. The original MGS1, 2, 3 and 4 did not show Snake in cutscenes doing things that ridiculous in such a stylized fashion.

He deals with huge threats with a mixture of general skill/stealth, extreme weapon knowledge(both his own and enemies), terrain knowledge, and amazing in-battle awareness being able to clearly keep track of number of rounds fired, reload time etc. Oh, and a little bit of CIS once in awhile. As was the case with the Grey Fox fight--whose suit was also continuously messing up.


1. How does that reflect his MA skills, then, if he wins those battles due to elements that don't involve MA? And 2. You're going to seriously play semantics with me and argue that it's not PIS but it's CIS? CIS is a derivative of PIS.


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Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 03:42 AM
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menokokoro
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1. Dante (DMC4) The only reason Dante would be able to win is with his demon powers, so he loses, BADLY!

2. Jin Kazama (T6) I am not familiar with tekken, but since its a hand to hand fighting game...id say he would crush sam

3. Ryu (SFIV)same as Jin

4. Terry Bogard same yet again

5. Solid Snake Solid snake is just INSANE h2h.

so pretty much, sam beats dante, and looses to everyone after BADLY!


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Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 04:05 AM
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BloodRawEngine
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
The Boss's fighting is just as poor. As is Ocelot's if you by their final fight in GotP. Hell, bring up any cutscene with him doing his CQC and I'll show you how basic and hammed up it is.




Due to the fact that he can absorb bullets and runs around with assault rifles, yeah.




Don't do what?




No. His actual fighting skills. Like, him being a master of krav maga, for example.



I feel like we're going in circles here. Could you provide some scenes showing Snake's prowess please?




1. How does that reflect his MA skills, then, if he wins those battles due to elements that don't involve MA? And 2. You're going to seriously play semantics with me and argue that it's not PIS but it's CIS? CIS is a derivative of PIS.


-Just, no. First and foremost, when you have a women whose combat skills are enough that an electrically amped Soviet Colonel who makes Ivan Drago look like Gary Daniels is clearly intmidated by, if not possibly scared shitless of her, you have a fighter well beyond poor, especially continuing to consider how she constantly bested her student who casually soloed an handful of elite soldiers armed only with a tranq gun which he only shot once. This same student who taught everything he knew to Snake, who during a rapidly deteriorating state had just as handily bested nearly as many if not more soldiers in even less time. The entire first of five to seven minutes of Ocelot's fight with Snake had him tossing Snake to the ground pretty handily until he managed to get in the zone as well; even beyond CQC techniques, they were virtually even at that point, and still dishing out things that Fisher has yet to take from anyone of their fighting caliber. Your entire argument is still short of being virtually grounded, and in no small part that there's yet to be a valid example from you on what exactly justifies Snake's combat as being telegraphed. Best yet, show US where you consider any of any character's showings as being telegraphed without the obvious intention of dramatic effect (which is a usual given of the series, and a very major factor in TTS' cinematics, while still effectively the very clearly superior aspects of Snake's physical capabilities, and like I said, even in a state probably weaker than Sam's stats, he has showings that punk him entirely), because more often than not, they're more than likely not even putting forth an effort in their fighting, being that some of the only times they ever did was when fighting eachother.

-And beyond the gameplay instances you just stated, in which CC's point still stands; better showings against better adversaries, by virtue of there actually BEING showings.

-Savin' that for CC, not my bizz.

-Fisher can be a master of whatever he wants; Snake's still-superior showings of combat in more dire scenarios against larger numbers in often less-than-stellar condition only screams that his combat prowess is still better, be it through his freestyle martial arts or his CQC of which his best showings are in MGS4, where he's in probably his worst conditions physically. All that proves is his "stats" hardly play into his skill and his ability to effectively utilize CQC.

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 09:40 PM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
[B]-Just, no. First and foremost, when you have a women whose combat skills are enough that an electrically amped Soviet Colonel who makes Ivan Drago look like Gary Daniels is clearly intmidated by, if not possibly scared shitless of her, you have a fighter well beyond poor, especially continuing to consider how she constantly bested her student who casually soloed an handful of elite soldiers armed only with a tranq gun which he only shot once. This same student who taught everything he knew to Snake, who during a rapidly deteriorating state had just as handily bested nearly as many if not more soldiers in even less time. The entire first of five to seven minutes of Ocelot's fight with Snake had him tossing Snake to the ground pretty handily until he managed to get in the zone as well; even beyond CQC techniques, they were virtually even at that point, and still dishing out things that Fisher has yet to take from anyone of their fighting caliber.



http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...InformedAbility



quote:
Your entire argument is still short of being virtually grounded, and in no small part that there's yet to be a valid example from you on what exactly justifies Snake's combat as being telegraphed. Best yet, show US where you consider any of any character's showings as being telegraphed without the obvious intention of dramatic effect (which is a usual given of the series, and a very major factor in TTS' cinematics, while still effectively the very clearly superior aspects of Snake's physical capabilities, and like I said, even in a state probably weaker than Sam's stats, he has showings that punk him entirely), because more often than not, they're more than likely not even putting forth an effort in their fighting, being that some of the only times they ever did was when fighting eachother.


Sorry, but, "No, you show us yours" isn't an actual answer to my request.

quote:
-And beyond the gameplay instances you just stated, in which CC's point still stands; better showings against better adversaries, by virtue of there actually BEING showings.


-Fisher can be a master of whatever he wants; Snake's still-superior showings of combat in more dire scenarios against larger numbers in often less-than-stellar condition only screams that his combat prowess is still better, be it through his freestyle martial arts or his CQC of which his best showings are in MGS4, where he's in probably his worst conditions physically. All that proves is his "stats" hardly play into his skill and his ability to effectively utilize CQC.


I've already addressed this.


__________________

"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:24 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...InformedAbility





Sorry, but, "No, you show us yours" isn't an actual answer to my request.



I've already addressed this.
1. It's not informed if they actively displays it.

2. Actually considering you're the one who came in here saying that Snake's moves are telegraphed, it is in fact up to you to prove it, Burden of Proof fallacy.

3. Then show us when.


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Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:28 PM
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TH3_V01D
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Engine you forget that soviet colonel has tank busting punches, Fisher NEVER fought in H2H against like him, Heck the main villians from Double agent is just a pack of bums.

He would be DEAD in the MGS verse.

The only combat capable villian was that clow Grinko from the original SC.

Snake feats:

Taking a bullet from sniper wolf like nothing
Rapelling dodging fire from a Combat Chopper
Fighting in H2H with Ninja who would mop the floor with spiderman
Dodging a bullet in the olga battle
Beating a inmortal superhuman
Survive being microwaved

And there is more, hell the guy bring down a Military superpower by himself in Metal Gear 2 solid snake

Last edited by TH3_V01D on Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:39 PM

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:30 PM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NemeBro
[B]1. It's not informed if they actively displays it.


Duh. I wouldn't have posted the link if he had.

quote:
2. Actually considering you're the one who came in here saying that Snake's moves are telegraphed, it is in fact up to you to prove it, Burden of Proof fallacy.


Thanks, Mom.

quote:
3. Then show us when.


Go read my posts and find out. I'm not going to bust my ass arguing with three people because they're all bringing up the same things and not reading what I previously stated. no expression

I'll give you a hint, thoguh. Because the three of you are repeating each other, you can find it in the last part of each of my replies.


__________________

"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:33 PM
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NemeBro
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Duh. I wouldn't have posted the link if he had.



Thanks, Mom.



Go read my posts and find out. I'm not going to bust my ass arguing with three people because they're all bringing up the same things and not reading what I previously stated. no expression

I'll give you a hint, thoguh. Because the three of you are repeating each other, you can find it in the last part of each of my replies.
1. That butt hurt much son?

2. Don't BAW to me just because yer debatinz not that gut.

3. This is my first post towards you, moron.


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"I GOTTA FIND OUT WHO KILLED MY DAD"

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:39 PM
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Tzeentch
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That post was full of *******-ish butthurt, yeah. Sorry about that. I'm just in a bad mood because I just got home from work and I'm beat. I'll mess with you foo's tomorrow. Not in the mood today.


__________________

"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:42 PM
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NemeBro
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Lol.

I was actually joking. no expression


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"I GOTTA FIND OUT WHO KILLED MY DAD"

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:45 PM
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SpadeKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TH3_V01D
Engine you forget that soviet colonel has tank busting punches, Fisher NEVER fought in H2H against like him, Heck the main villians from Double agent is just a pack of bums.

He would be DEAD in the MGS verse.

The only combat capable villian was that clow Grinko from the original SC.

Snake feats:

Taking a bullet from sniper wolf like nothing
Rapelling dodging fire from a Combat Chopper
Fighting in H2H with Ninja who would mop the floor with spiderman
Dodging a bullet in the olga battle
Beating a inmortal superhuman
Survive being microwaved

And there is more, hell the guy bring down a Military superpower by himself in Metal Gear 2 solid snake


Some people just don't read the rules in the matches

Old Post Aug 31st, 2010 11:46 PM
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BloodRawEngine
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That's because even besides those feats based on his normally superior physical ability, Snake still has better showings and achievements, which also goes for Big Boss throughout 90% of MGS3 based on dialogue.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...InformedAbility





Sorry, but, "No, you show us yours" isn't an actual answer to my request.



I've already addressed this.


-That speaks more for Fisher than anyone in MGS. The logic in and of itself was always a flawed one to begin with anyway. At least when actually using it to compare certain characters.

-Nor is groundlessly saying "His/her capabilities are utterly moot and impractical based on my observation of only the inaccurate/irrelevant showings" an actual argument in the first place.

-Hardly, cuz And you're still wrong.

Last edited by BloodRawEngine on Sep 1st, 2010 at 11:44 AM

Old Post Sep 1st, 2010 11:39 AM
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SpadeKing
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by BloodRawEngine
That's because even besides those feats based on his normally superior physical ability, Snake still has better showings and achievements, which also goes for Big Boss throughout 90% of MGS3 based on dialogue.


All those feats due to superior physical ability.

Old Post Sep 1st, 2010 08:32 PM
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NemeBro
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He manages to best opponents physically far superior to him through superior physical ability?


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Old Post Sep 1st, 2010 08:38 PM
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