Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
This is a good thread, a lot of info thrown around though,
some right some wrong. Too much for Mr M to swim in.
I will add this though ...
The account involving Sise-Neg and Shuma is being misconstrued.
Sise-Neg was never afraid of Shuma.
Shuma had absolutely no chance against Sise-Neg.
Shuma was never going to absorb "much" of Sise-Neg's energy either.
In fact, Sise-Neg wasn't even interested in battling Shuma,
he only entered that Universe (Pre-Historic era of 616)
to see who's mystical energies registered so high.
Sise-Neg also entered the Camelot housing Universe to notice Merlyn.
He also entered Ancient Egypt (due to the many "gods" they worshiped there)
Sise-Neg was later only stopping in time periods where there was a high concentration of mystical energy to care about, and in each stop in time he only stopped to gather mystic energy that was greater in scope than the mystical energy he absorbed prior. So the fact that a being who already had so much energy within himself considered Shuma's energy impressive enough to gather says to me that Shuma's magical energy was enormous. Though Shuma defeating Sise-Neg was most likely not a possible outcome.
However, for a guy who was already so immensely powerful to say that dealing with Shuma directly would take time and energy, when beforehand he could have erased Strange with a mere thought and had been able to absorb all the energy from whole realities with minimal to no effort, that says to me that Shuma's power was still rather significant - maybe not in comparison to Sise-Neg, but at least more significant than the other demons named in this thread, considering Sise-Neg didn't even care about their energies, and they had each existed on Earth at one point or another.
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Last edited by Robbie_Rotten on Jul 6th, 2012 at 06:04 PM
A) The Elder Gods weren't introduced as such (1982) till AFTER this event took place (1974), so you have no point there.
B) Zom was imprisoned by Eternity in a dimension beyond all space and time, he wouldn't even be in Earth's dimension which is where Sise Neg was (Camelot, Sodom and Gomorrah, Cenozoic Era Earth).\
So yeah.........
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
A) Doesn't matter if they were introduced as such after the Sise-Neg arc. Set was already recognized as an evil god in 1971. Even still, it doesn't change the fact that what happened in the Sise-Neg arc is still 100% canon, and that Shuma is the only demon that Sise-Neg noticed as significant enough to absorb power from.
B) Sise-Neg is from the 31st Century, far in the future after Zom attacked Strange and the Ancient One on Earth. If Zom's energy was of high enough significance, Sise-Neg could have warped instantly to when Zom was on Earth after sensing his magic while going through time and consumed his magic, but nope, he didn't care.
A) There was a HUGE difference in power between Conan Era Set (who wasn't even introduced into the mainline Marvel universe at the time) and Elder God Set. Don't act stupid.
B) Did the writer of that arc even remember Zom to place him in that story? Umar with the Flames of Regency was also on Earth at the time, yet the writer didn't include her. The Living Tribunal was also on Earth during that time. What about the power of the awakened black magicians caused by the severing of Zom's forelock that was a threat to all reality (that forced the LT to intervene)? What about Nebulos and his staff (that was powerful enough to challenge the LT himself)?
You're so full of phail.............
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Actually,
he didn't stop to gather Shuma's energy or Merlyn's in Camelot
or the "gods" of ancient Egypt.
Sise-Neg was going to absorb their energy as effortlessly as he did
regardless whether he entered those Universes or not.
He was only interested in who's energy it was. So went into those realities out of curiosity.
Also, no where in that arc is it stated: (that I recall)
... that the mystical energy in Camelot, Ancient Egypt and/or Pre-Historic Earth
was greater in scope than the energies he'd absorbed prior.
Let me see where you found that cause it slipped my meticulous eyes.
I agree that in that arc back in 1974,
Sise-Neg definitely considered Shuma the greatest of Demons,
or at-least Englehart (writer) felt that Shuma was the most powerful demon.
I also agree,
that it is impressive that although Shuma would've been obliterated
Sise-Neg felt it would've taken some time at the cost of some energy to destroy him.
*note *
Let's not forget though, Sise-Neg could've said that about anyone if you think about it.
He never tried to hurt anyone else, he only stole their mystical energies.
What if he had considered destroying someone else,
would have he said the same thing?
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Last edited by Mr Master on Jul 6th, 2012 at 07:12 PM
When they first stop in Camelot, Sise-Neg explains why he had to stop there: "I was traveling undisturbed, into the past, absorbing mystical energy as I went -- until I encountered a mammoth concentration of the energy in this era! I must know why!"
Yes he was concerned why the energy was so high there, but if the energy he had absorbed previously was greater than the mystical energy in the era of ancient Camelot, why would he be concerned in the first place? If it was not significant to the power he absorbed before that point, there doesn't seem to be much sense in taking time to scout the area, and Sise-Neg really stresses that the energy there is "mammoth". Says to me that Merlin's energy was the most impressive he had encountered at that point.
At the next point in time, he says that the energy in Sodom and Gomorrah is even greater than the energy he took from Merlin.
"There shall be another cessation of travel! A new concentration of magic -- a much larger one than Merlin's lurks below!"
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Then upon meeting Shuma-Gorath he does say that he is the final possessor of mystical energy that he MUST have. Sise-Neg was near totality at that point before absorbing from Shuma, I don't think he'd care to scope out who had all that magic power if it was more pitiful than the energy he'd already absorbed, since he can extract energy from places without even having to go there - as he demonstrated when he made Mordo and Strange weaker in Marvel Premiere #13 "Time Doom".
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Last edited by Robbie_Rotten on Jul 6th, 2012 at 07:47 PM
Sise-Neg was pretty much an arrogant jerkwad who'd kill if he wanted. He created a dragon to fight the knight Lancelot du Lac in Camelot because he heard stories of battles between knights and dragons in his time period, and Strange had to rescue Lancelot du Lac b/c Sise-Neg didn't care if the guy died in his little game.
Then there's also Sise-Neg destroying Sodom and Gomorrah because they attacked him, and even before that he told the citizens that if they don't take him to their leader they will face certain death.
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Last edited by Robbie_Rotten on Jul 6th, 2012 at 08:01 PM
Yes, please post that scan of him going after Gorath. I want you to do it so the forum can see what the "mighty" Shuma Gorath was doing on Cenozoic Era Earth.
You can get the scan from the respect thread on KMC.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Yea, I know the story well,
and these over-sized scans in no way suggest that the mystical energies in either Camelot,
Ancient Egypt,
or the Pre-Historic Earth where Shuma was at,
were greater in scope than the mystical energy he absorbed before..
Now, there was more mystical energy in those Universes in comparison with other universes,
obviously, I mentioned that before myself.
But it was never even hinted that he meant as a whole.
Meaning ...
(either one) Camelot, Ancient Egypt, or Pre-Earth (Shuma) > than all the energy he absorbed before.
Now (either one) Camelot, Ancient Egypt, or Pre-Earth (Shuma)
had more mystical energy than any other universe individually?
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Jul 5th, 2012 09:20 PM
