Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
Not just some mental resistance >>>>>>>> very high level ones.. This probably is why God complex Cable didn't even try it, heck he wasn't even sure if his tp could reach Surfer.. Planck time by no mean a way for Nate to get a drop from Surfer as he is also capable of accessing similar or perhaps better way of perceiving all time; as in everything from the beginning to the end of time.. I do agree that speed is not gonna be a deciding factor for each other to win as they're both able to manipulate time as in going outside of it.. Looking closely this guys quite possess similar ability however i think Surfer is far better skilled and operate a tad higher level, so im seeing him winning..
Not that X-Man does not carry sufficient might to put down the Surfer, but I’ve seen greater outputs of power from Silver Surfer, and yet X-Man pulls of exotic abilities with more freighting ease.
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
Nah!! I've never seen Nate manipulate matter/energies as complex as Surfer like for ex. making a deviant body w/ complete abilities, evolving a single human or a whole planet, there is also configuring quantum, interstellar, red-sol, soul, psi, magic etc.. energies, healing, binding, transporting, etc, etc, etc.. Also when it comes to higher energy output; there is that blackhole or solar destructive feat course given enough energy to absorb...
Like i said his just far more skilled in the use of his powers compared to Nate as shown in those feats mention ++++ theres more, same with energy output.. Less of course nate got some major feats ive missed recently..
Making a deviant body w/ complete abilities. - Recreating Madelyne Pryor
Evolving a single human - Merging & Unmerging a Superhumaniod in Idris.
Evolving an entire Planet - Deconstructing the Harvester “Body & Mind” into pure energy, who for all intents and purposes Harvester was the entire planet.
I also want to point out that Nate is more prone to pull off, more abilities at once then Surfer.
I know about the black hole feat in Annihilation, but Surfer has blown up a Star?
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
Like i said possess similar abilities cept Surfer is far better skilled in those abilities..
With nate he practically created these beings (Mady and Gwen) unknowingly/accidentally as oppose to a control creation like Surfer recreating a body of Ghaur the deviant..
Deconstracting and recreating/evolving are two diff. things - the latter requires far higher skills to accomplish..
These just prove my point, it being Surfer > Nate in Skill department...
Pulling more than a few abilities at once his done that..
Not a Star but a Star system course he had absorb a lot of energies prior to that..
Recreating Gwen proves he had firm control of it, as he bluntly did so to prove a point. But anyhow your tossing arguments of; “hey look he has better matter manipulating feats.” He has evolved a person. Well look Nate has matter manipulated super beings as well, enforcing he is no slouch in that department. Given that both Fusing, and Evolving requires ample amount of skill & Power.
My argument is not so much that Nate has better energy/matter manipulating feats, as oppose to better showings in pulling off multiple exotic abilities on the fly. This reaffirms my former stand, Surfer operating on a power level a notch higher to Nate executing multiple exotic abilities on the fly.
Oh the Galactus Herald My Rage thing is not applicable. Otherwise I would argue that Nate can destroy an entire dimension/realm, no outside amp needed.
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
Just check your respect thread and " I didn't mean to do it, statement made by Nate" seems like he had no firm control on how Gwen was created .. Anyhow im not implying he couldn't def. do it, im just saying that Surfer > Nate in skill department, i've given you explanation as to why..
Im sticking with my point, Surfer > Nate in energy/matter - due to being more skillful - and regarding execution of multiple exotic abilities on the fly, that pretty much is his estecsh, so his no slouch in that department either.. More skillful and operates at higher level is why i think Surfer win this match up..
No not herald my rage from annihilation, it was from the Unilord Saga before absorbing Unilord but after merging with Blackbody and acquiring the energies within it.. So if he had ampled supply or absorb energies he could def. do it again..
Nate felt out of control with his powers gimping out. But he explains how Gwen was created with relative ease, on a stray thought.
To me your brining up examples of how experienced Surfer uses his power of cosmic, one high point at a time. And I concede he is the better matter/energy manipulator of the two. If
However in carrying out his practice, with excellent performance I give the nod to Nate. Because with his one ability (Psionics), he is able to multitask, and handle a great deal big or exotic abilities on the fly. That requires a great amount of skill. Because I am not talking about pulling one big feat at a time, relaying on such accomplishment would be unpractical. But carrying out several big abilities at once, that requires skill to match its raw power.
While he fought the Surfer.
He held the floating City Providence.
Maintained a Telepathic link to every living human on the planet.
The instant those pacific fleets where vaporized, they where atomically reconstructed.
While he held Providence a float, and covered the globe with his telepathy
Four days rerouting the waterways to flood half Sahara.
Two days to throw out every logger out of the Amazon rain forest.
Two hours a day soothing the pain of every person on the planet dying of any kind of disease.
Stopping the white blood count deterioration of every AIDS victim in Africa.
Straining the leaning tower of Pisa
Stopping a daily average of 14 individual acts of terrorism
1,100 attempted murders.
7,000 car accidents
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
I took it as more to do with the scope of his power - a stray thought from Parker shaped by Nates powers - basically it had nothing to do with Nate thinking therefore requiring no skill in that feat, his powers just auto recreated her.
I had thought we were discussing Shaman Nate not Cable, less i'm missing something. It has been a while and i've missed some back issues of X-Man..
Anyhow.. Surfer has done something similar in regards to those feats you mentioned from merging with planet Earth and at the same time erecting shields in big cities, fixed global catastrophe all over the glove from Tidal wave, Earth Quakes, riots, etc.. Then there was the plaque he removed @ a molecular level from millions of corpses a single body at time and to make sure that science couldn't detect any manipulation of it. There is also his combat feats against a Shiar ship were he use forcefield and energy drained at the same time, etc.. etc.. His actually done this kinda showing a lot, displaying diff. abilities, multitasking in a single issue..
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
Ahh! My bad...
Still i'm sticking with my argument.. Surfer can pretty much match or perhaps even is greater than Nates multitasking; showing off diff. exotic abilities on the fly as i've given some examples in my previous post, so that and his capacity to pull of big feat as mention should be enough to warrant > against Nate in regards to complete mastery in matter/energy manipulation.. This and the fact that his shown to have greater raw energy output is why i think he wins...
I have Nate winning thanks to his Telepathy, and Precognition. He will read, and predict the Surfer intentions like an open book, every step of the way. Surfer will fall pray to Nate’s hard counters. Nate’s ability to fight in between moments, stepping in, and out of time only makes it easier.
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
You do know that Surfer can do all those you mention right? The only ability Nate trumps him is telepathy and just a slight edge at that, then we take a look at his defensive showing against this type of attack from opponent who perhaps equal or even rival Nate - There is the goddess w/ several cosmic cube, Moondragons w/ soul gem, the great one to name a few - Surfer pretty much showed very high tp resistance against this cosmic being.. So you can pretty much tell that whatever Nate can master with a tp assault, Surfer can block it or either shake it off, He is not going to lose with that type of attack.. My 2 cents..
Surfer shrugged off Moondragons mental bolt, that’s not the same reading his thoughts or manipulating his mind. And Surfer himself can not pin point, and explain the reason to how or why he was able to dispel The Goddess mental control. That scene is riddled with ambiguity. So no I don’t agree that Surfer can resist X-Man telepathy, being that we are talking about someone who can manipulate psi to such an extant, that he forced Xavier from the astral plane against his will.
And no Surfer can not step out of time with the same ease as X-Man. He needs to build up enough speed to unravel space/time, as oppose to X-Man who can do so willing on command.
Gender: Unspecified Location: REALM OF THE UNDERWORLD
I took it as both a two sided attack; Physical and Mental.. Surfer pretty much state that It will never work, that he will never be swayed to the Goddess side again after he shrugged that mental bolt, that should tells it wasn't just a psi blast. Regarding the dispelling of the Goddess mental hold, i thought it was quite clear how he was able to do it, he saw the falseness in the Goddess crusade.. If this still not enough, I can give you another ex.. The Entity called the Other, again he withstood tp attack, There is also that one of the most powerful virus in the universe which actually attacks the carriers via tp, the Fear eater, etc. etc all this he withstood they're tp attack.. +++ he can erect shields that blocks tp, thought he never use it against this guys.. Guess he forgot.. lol
Most of Surfers space time manipulation pretty much gotta do with speed however he can also manipulate time/space through chronal energies which he has done before.. getting to late gotta go to bed..
X-Man's telepathy is being gauged because he expelled Xavier from the astral plane? Moondragon, wtfpwned Xavier with a telepathic blast slumping him into being a vegetable in Infinity Crusade #3.
And then, a few pages later in that same issue, Surfer tanked Moondragon's telepathic assault and just went into superhero pose.
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Nov 2nd, 2010 03:27 AM
