I think this is a nigh-incoherent pseudo-philosophical miasma of half-connected ideas and blind assumptions. Further, I think that you holding this up as proof of God - and, beyond that, proof of God that you can't fathom others doubting - is borderline delusional. Seriously, you've been openly critical of atheists, going so far as to insinuate that many aren't actually atheists and are simply afraid of judgement. And you've also openly questioned how they can deny the evidence, which, presumably, is contained in this post, as though ~500 words musing on infinity could topple centuries of critical thought on the subject. It almost defies credulity. Anything I say further is to humor the argument, not because I find any merit in even addressing it seriously.
So, if I understand the gist of your argument, infinity exists because we perceive time? Or something must exist because existence is the "one" to nonexistence's "zero"? It doesn't take long for this to become absurd. "Not Santa" exists in my computer room right now. He's not here. But for the concept "not Santa" to exist, does that mean that Santa exists? That's a deliberately stupid example, but it's not hard to come up with concepts for which the opposite doesn't exist.
I'm also uncomfortable classifying the idea of infinity as God or the divine. You don't seem to attempt to get at proof of God so much as proof of infinity. In so far as infinity just refers to infinite time, we can describe it in entirely scientific terms. Mathematical and theoretical models exist that sufficiently explain the existence of the universe, and we understand how planets and stars formed, how life came to be on Earth, and how the physical laws of the universe dictate everything from the movements of celestial bodies to the atomic and subatomic levels. No God needed. Nothing that could even be considered metaphysical or supernatural.
You say a couple weird things like "Infinity will experience moments..." as though you're personifying the concept of infinity. But that would require its own extensive justification to superimpose consciousness on a concept that has no reason or method to be conscious.
And please understand, the forcefulness with which I disagree with you is not a personal attack. You're completely entitled to your belief regardless of what I think of them, and mine is only one opinion on them. I just don't pull punches when I see an argument as absurd. It doesn't mean I'm not trying to understand your position. It also doesn't mean that I don't first attempt to consider it on its merits before responding.
I appreciate you not pulling any punches in your response. To be honest it's quite an open minded one. And you're correct about my main concern being about proof existing that supports the existence of infinity. I've changed as time has passed but I'd rather just leave off on the note that I do thank you for being sincere and not making a mockery of what I did come up with. Take care for today Digi.
Cool. You're welcome to clarify your points. Or tell me where you think I've misinterpreted you. But really, I just think you're working with ideas that don't remotely constitute evidence of God, much less a specific one with any definable characteristics.
Something I'll point out on simplicity and complexity and infinity-
As per entropy, when energy is added to a system, order- that is, complexity- tends to increase. We see this every day.
You don't need a complex being for an increasing amount of complexity. You just need a lot of dumb energy. And not even an infinite amount of energy, though even with an infinite, it need not be a complex one.
I think that summing it up is that I believe that infinity exists and if that is the case then anything is possible including Santa Claus being in the room. I guess I have to accept that believing something so far fetched may make it seem like my take on things should be immediately dismissed, but I have asked myself whether stranger things have happened, and my answer to myself is that a man from many centuries ago who told people that there were millions of invisible organisms in the room was in danger of being considered mad. That didn't change the fact that he was right.
If infinity exists then what can be "impossible"? I think that I do understand but I would think that there would be definable characteristics like "aware"
Yeah, it'a like the people who use multiverse theories to claim there's a universe where {insert some very specific, usually self-serving scenario}. Events or entities that are cosmically unlikely or impossible, given physical laws, still won't exist, even given infinite time or infinite universes.
More than that, though, is this really the proof you've been dogging atheists about? Can you at least admit you're no more sure than anyone else, and that it's not irrational to doubt the existence of God based on the rationale you've put forth?
If you're counting something then you can end up with an infinite amount. You're specifically referencing to numbers, and numbers are usually mere representations of some other thing whether you're counting seconds or aircraft carriers. Numbers are figurative and what I'm saying is that there is much evidence of a literal infinite substance and power.
I will admit that what I've come up with is rudimentary at best but I am willing to have it scrutinized. To be honest the fault that I've found with atheism is the certainty entailed with terms like "never" in an area of thought that one would think should be open. I feel that doubting the existence of God/infinity is not irrational, I just see evidence that proves God's/infinity's existence abundantly available, so steadily doubting is very difficult for me to understand.
All signs point to infinite power being the reality and in no way a fantasy. Science shows that our universe expands at an amazing rate. Opposites assure us that where the least powerful sentient being exists, the most powerful sentient being exists as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if atheism is correct and there is no all powerful being, isn't it possible that humans are the most powerful sentient beings in the universe? The thing that drives me to challenge atheism is the fact that it allows for an existence where humans can have the most influence on living things. A world where humans are the final authority on what is right and wrong morally is 100% unbelievable given our nature. The things that make us what we are make it impossible to accurately define anyone except ourselves, and many people struggle with the defining themselves part.
Knowing how vanity has influenced mankind in the past, can you blame me for being leery of an insistence that men are worthy/capable of judging each others lives? Humans that commit despicable acts and are never caught by humans have escaped punishment if humans are the final authority. Atheists do not have to promote this, it is just an understood notion in an existence where it is "impossible" to "meet your maker".
Please feel free to dissect my " borderline delusional " post from earlier and show me why the evidence is disconnected. I won't get my feelings hurt so you can be blunt.
I did however come up with a simple question that will determine whether we will just have to agree to disagree.
The statement "All exists." is a fact. True or false?
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Last edited by The MISTER on Dec 2nd, 2015 at 10:29 AM
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