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Death Star vs a Borg CUbe
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Lord Lucien
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I barely know the show, and all I have to go on is the films here, so bear with me.

How quickly do Borg assimilate people? And exactly how do they do it? I remember in First Contact they needed to inject a little proboscis in to people, lead them away to deeper in the ship, and started transforming them in to drones. If they need to be outfitted first before combat, they're not gonna make for very good soldiers whilst in the middle of said combat.


On a side note: in First Contact, where did the Borg get all that equipment? They beamed aboard the Enterprise and suddenly a whole bunch of their equipment appeared with them in the decks they took over. I've heard that doesn't make any sense, that they can't conjure equipment and materiel out of nothing.


On that, how fast can they assimilate technology? I know the big argument is that they'll "just assimilate", but what's the time like on that? Do they have an... assimilation wave that instantly makes everything theirs, or is there time required? It seemed to take a while before they realized that Data was beyond their reach. And again, that's technology and physics that exist in their own world. What's it going to be like for them to deconstruct and understand technology (which, frankly, is full of bullshit and nothing short of magic) and physics that don't comply with their own? I don't think they can just touch an alien (in every sense of the word) technological construct and master all use and understanding of it, Matrix-style, and then actually integrate it with their own. I also still want to know what the range/limitation is like for the drones' adaptive capabilities; I don't want to shrug and just say "no limits" for either them or Star Wars' blasters and sabers.



I have no idea what those 39 ships were like, so what that f*cking up was like at the hands of one cube is beyond me. I want to know what it'll be like for a Borg cube to fight (and I quote from lowly Wookieepedia here):

7,000 Starfighters
4 Strike cruisers
3,600 Assault shuttles


I have no idea what those latter ships two are.


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Last edited by Lord Lucien on Jan 17th, 2013 at 05:49 AM

Old Post Jan 17th, 2013 05:46 AM
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Robtard
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No worries. I'm a fan of both genres and love talking nerd-speak.

It's not instant and it's varied. IIRC, in first contact Federation crew where showings signs of assimilation moments after being injected with the Borg nanos. The Borg can also beam(transport) people directly into their ships assimilation units/tanks. In Voyager, we learn the Borg can assimilate entire cities full of people by scooping up the city (or parts there of) with their cutting and towing beams.

Stands to reason they assimilated Federation equipment into their own and most likely used the ships replicators to help along. Can't recall which series it was in, but from just a few Borg nanos, an entire drone-incubation-tube was created fairly quick while the crew of the ship was ignorant.

They knew right away that Data's mind was hard to crack. Why the Queen started messing with his body and adapting living tissue to it as a means to persuade him. But I don't see the technology on the Death Star as being similar to Data's positronic brain. Unless I'm missing something.

What exactly is "magic like" about the Death Star, Storm Troopers, blasters etc.? It seems to be advanced technology (by our standards), really no different than the tech seen in Star Trek by and large. Seven of Nine mentioned that the Borg have gone so far as to assimilate a species composed entirely of energy.

Those ships varied. Some were Galaxy Class like the Enterprise or not that low from it. Ships capable of single-handily ****ing up a planet.

IMO, Tiefigthers and such would be like gnats to a Borg cube, considering what they can do to large Star Trek vessels. When the Borg enter Earth's solar system in the battle I mentioned, several small ships are sent and are cast aside like they were nothing.


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Last edited by Robtard on Jan 17th, 2013 at 06:13 AM

Old Post Jan 17th, 2013 06:06 AM
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Darth Martin
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Seriously doubt a Borg Cube could withstand an assualt from an operational Death Star. Borg also can't adapt to physical assualts like Quantum Torpedoes. So I'm sure if the Empire has any missiles or any weapons non-energy based they'll be of great help.

Is Vader or the Emperor onboard. They'd likely neutralize a desperate attempt of taking the ship when the Borg beam drones over for assimilation.

Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 04:59 AM
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Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 05:30 AM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
What exactly is "magic like" about the Death Star, Storm Troopers, blasters etc.? It seems to be advanced technology (by our standards), really no different than the tech seen in Star Trek by and large.
It's magic by the physics of our own universe. Star Trek seemed to go out of its way to try to explain its technology, at least to an extent. The tech in Star Wars isn't based anywhere close to our reality. By comparison, it may as well operate on magic.


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Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 07:21 AM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Seriously doubt a Borg Cube could withstand an assualt from an operational Death Star. Borg also can't adapt to physical assualts like Quantum Torpedoes. So I'm sure if the Empire has any missiles or any weapons non-energy based they'll be of great help.

Is Vader or the Emperor onboard. They'd likely neutralize a desperate attempt of taking the ship when the Borg beam drones over for assimilation.


Borg do fine against torpedoes. ie a propulsion projectile with some form of warhead. Both the Federation and the Cardassians employ quantum torpedoes.


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Last edited by Robtard on Jan 27th, 2013 at 07:46 PM

Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 07:41 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's magic by the physics of our own universe. Star Trek seemed to go out of its way to try to explain its technology, at least to an extent. The tech in Star Wars isn't based anywhere close to our reality. By comparison, it may as well operate on magic.


Can you give me an example of what's "magic like" compared to Star Teck on the Death Star? Seems like their propulsion, shielding, environmental controls etc are 'standard' tech, for a lack of a better word.


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Last edited by Robtard on Jan 27th, 2013 at 07:45 PM

Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 07:42 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Borg do fine against torpedoes. ie a propulsion projectile with some form of warhead. Both the Federation and the Cardassians employ quantum torpedoes.


Since when did the cardassians employ them? Or are we talking about the weapons they were given by the Dominion?


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Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 08:18 PM
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Robtard
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
Since when did the cardassians employ them? Or are we talking about the weapons they were given by the Dominion?


In the ST: Voyager episode 'Dreadnaught'. The missile the Maquis stole from the Cardassians and reprogrammed was a exceptionally powerful quantum torpedo, iirc.

Though admittedly, that's the only instance that comes to mind.


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Last edited by Robtard on Jan 27th, 2013 at 08:51 PM

Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 08:48 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
In the ST: Voyager episode 'Dreadnaught'. The missile the Maquis stole from the Cardassians and reprogrammed was a exceptionally powerful quantum torpedo, iirc.

Though admittedly, that's the only instance that comes to mind.


Oh okay. I thought you were talking about the orbital platforms used during the war.

it always amuses me how in the original script for first contact, quantums were supposed to be capable of one-shotting entire cubes, and that they were fighting a fleet of them, only for them to scale it back for the movie.


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Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 09:18 PM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Can you give me an example of what's "magic like" compared to Star Teck on the Death Star? Seems like their propulsion, shielding, environmental controls etc are 'standard' tech, for a lack of a better word.
They're "like magic" because they don't actually give us much explanation. Star Trek is famous for it's techno babble, even if a lot if is just bullshit. Star Wars doesn't really bother with that. Things work because... that's what they do. I think radiation is used as an answer a lot. Not that it makes any sense.


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Old Post Jan 27th, 2013 09:48 PM
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Sadako of Girth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
They're "like magic" because they don't actually give us much explanation. Star Trek is famous for it's techno babble, even if a lot if is just bullshit. Star Wars doesn't really bother with that. Things work because... that's what they do.


"Midichloreans."


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2013 12:23 AM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
"Midichloreans."

What are those? Never heard of 'em. Leave my childhood out of this.


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2013 12:51 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
Star Teck


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2013 01:50 AM
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Darth Truculent
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Borg can beam through shields - just like the Dominion and Borg weaponry can fire faster than the DS


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Old Post Jan 28th, 2013 02:24 AM
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Darth Martin
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Still think the Death Star will be putting the Borg Cube down before the reverse. The Borg have to adapt to a new attack and there is no way they'll be able withstand the power the Death Star is capable of putting out with one shot.

What about the Death Star's shield? It was using Endor to generate it in ROTJ?

Old Post Jan 29th, 2013 04:59 AM
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Lord Lucien
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The first didn't have a shield.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2013 07:37 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The first didn't have a shield.


Indeed. Previous dude indirectly pointed that out.


It was a remote shield.


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Old Post Jan 29th, 2013 01:51 PM
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Shouldn't matter as it should only take one shot to down the Borg Cube.

Old Post Jan 30th, 2013 08:53 AM
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I suppose the borg are seemingly indestructible, why haven't they assimilated all beings?
Issue here is with the force since one brought up the emperor and vader. Vader was a strategist savant and a savant in the use of the force.
Borgs one we dont know if that mystical energy we call the force could be counteracted by a borg because in star trek there is no force to speak of.
So all is theory, my theory is vader would cut through the borg to the queen and rip her apart telekeniticly.
Let us presuppose the emperor would have foreseen the borg cube and have found a way to suppress that, he would have researched ancient sith holos in preparation for such and possibly rediscovered the tech to make another rakatan star forge with a hundred death stars and innumerable super star destroyers the cube would not stand a chance.

The limit of the scope is a direct fight one one one and that would not happen with palpitine, he may not have been the most powerful sith Lord but he was the most strategic.

A super star destoyer does not just have energy weapons it also can employs rail tech which is waht a lot of the old mandalorians would use as well as thier vessels to embark by penetrating the hulls of ships then allowing the extraction teams to enter via hull breach.
All of this would be used with the force ability to foresee the future.

I see no way to assimilate and defend against precognitive ability, and though it may not be perfect clairvoyance it allows for the ability to not be caught unaware and to be prepared.

Old Post Apr 18th, 2013 07:56 PM
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