It's been shown that the Surfer can react to FTL attacks even at close range. Flash stands about half a mile away and would need to close the gap BEFORE the Surfer can even react at the slightest. IMO, I'm sure Flash/Zoom are fast enough to close the gap to IMP the Surfer, however, the Surfer would be able to detonate a cosmic Omni-blast after the first few punches land (w/c the Surfer would be able to tank).
The Flash would need to start running after that. He runs out of room to run, Omni-blast spreads to the ends of the planet, encompassing the whole place, then POOF! Flash-fried Flash.
Assuming that the Flash/Zoom can somehow find room to get away from the blast, this would give Thanos enough time to erect a forcefield, wherein the mind-raping shall begin...
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Flash couldn't even react to Zoom while seriously amped, and Flash going all out is such a beast that he could have hit a Superman character (who can also react that fast) 1,000 times before he could blink, after a certain point actions start to happen simultaneously. I'd bet on them in a quickdraw. Either way they can still vibrate and time hop.
Thing is, they'd need to be many thousands of times faster than the Surfer's perception (w/c has been shown as FTL) just to close the .5 mile gap AND pepper him with punches before the Surfer can react with a thought (w/c is all it takes to fire off an Omniblast). W/c I don't think is the case.
They vibrate thru objects by vibrating between molecules. Energy attacks dont have molecules. Do they have feats that show them vibrating thru energy attacks?
Also, time-hopping is something the Surfer can do just as easily as Flash, and wouldn't that count as self-BFR?
The instant Flash/Zoom go on the defensive, Thanos' shields go up and it's game over anyway.
Last edited by D_Dude1210 on Dec 21st, 2010 at 03:32 PM
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The problem is Zoom is always ahead of any timeline the combatants are in (so it doesn't count as a bfr if they are on the battlefield, which is Earth). Both characters have gone many thousand times faster than light. Then you have speed steal. To blitz a character on Superman's level before he can react shows that. No BS CIS Wally and Zoom is pretty much unbeatable until you get to a good skyfather.
Time manipulation is one of the Surfer's powerset. Doing a time-attack really wouldn't cut it here and should also be excluded as the debate on this issue would prolly be longer than a "blow the planet up" attack w/c wasn't allowed to the cosmic team for the same reason. That is, unless you want to really demonstrate a bias here.
To speed steal, they need to get in close (or is there a time where he did it at a range?) w/c won't happen because the Omni blast would already be heading their way. Also, from my knowledge, speed stealing takes away KINETIC energy, not the reaction time of the Surfer's mind. Even frozen in place, he can still omni-blast.
Gender: Male Location: Kicking pigs out of the screen.
Zoom's powers function off of him manitpulating his own time bubble. It hasn't been BFR in any debate. I've never seen it implied as such. Leaving the battlefield itself or removing it is a "battlefield *removal" in my book.
Even if we were going to play the blow the planet up thing, (which we could, I just didn't want to ruin the debate with it) we could also do the "Drop the multiverse on their domepieces" argument.
Blowing up the planet is something the Surfer and the other Heralds have demonstrated to be a regular ability. "Dropping the multiverse on ppl's domepieces" is a feat RIFE with PIS and/or hyberbole (kinda like Thor lifiting an infinitely increasing hammer). Unless you consider Flash to be a multiversal-lvl character (w/c he is not).
W/c is what an IMP is, I know. But dropping a multiverse? Hyperbole (the aftermath of an attack like this would destroy the univere. did he destroy the universe?).
Like I said, Time Manipulation is as much the Surfer's powers as it is Zoom's. But going that route would really turn this into a circular debate. But if you mean that they use time manipulation the way Zoom does it to move quickly, then I don't see how it makes a difference here. He'd outrun the omniblast, but it'd eventually get him once he runs out of room.
Last edited by D_Dude1210 on Dec 21st, 2010 at 03:59 PM
You'll need to show this "multiverse dump" via scans or you really can't use it here.
Like I said, Zoom uses his "time bubble" power to speed up. The Surfer actually travels thru time and perceives time lines. If you allow a time attack, he'd just go back and time and un-exist Zoom (w/c he's done on-panel before).
Basically, Zoom's time power is just Zoom moving really really fast w/c won't help him once the omni-blast starts.
I seriously hope the term "respect" was meant in jest.
Last edited by D_Dude1210 on Dec 21st, 2010 at 04:35 PM
Gender: Male Location: Kicking pigs out of the screen.
Don't dis h1a8 fool.
Zoom travels and pops in and out of time at will. I was just saying that using his ability wouldn't be a bfr as it is the source of his powers.
This battle is really just haxx. The Flash and Zoom are characters that you either get stomped by or you stomp them, based on their powerset. Nothing stopping Flash from doing a trillion IMP's at the start of the match. He could nail a white martian with 1,000 of them as easily as one before he could react. Surfer doesn't really show to have Supes combat reflexes. Surfer *can* travel fast though. Furthermore perception isn't the same thing as reacting.
When has Thanos been KO'd via blunt force? If they are hiting Surfer or thanos that means they are in range and getting hit by an omni directional blast as it radiates from their entire body. If they are making contact with Thanos or Surfer they are getting hit. Please show me zoom or flash.. dodging omni directional blast radiating from someone's body while punching them.
h1's my b!tch, you're gonna WATCH me diss im and like it, punk!
Sigh.
FYI, Surfer's fastest travel feat pwns Zoom's or Flash's.
Perception indicates an ability to sense something. Sensing someting implies that it exists between your instances of thought. If he can perceive it then he can think about it. Thought is all the Surfer needs to trigger his Power Cosmic.
While Zoom might be faster than the Surfer's limbs are able to react. He is not faster than the Surfer being able to perceive him then trigger an omniblast via thinking it.
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I'm not sure about that travel feat. It won't beat Zoom's and probably not Flash's going all out. Especially when Flash has done crazy things like going so fast that a duplicate of himself emerged and outraced... himself.
Percieving something isn't the same thing as reacting to it. Your body might process the information or send it to you, but the time it takes to send the signals (kinetic by the way) are another thing entirely. Basically, because I see something doesn't mean I can react to it.
When you show me Thanos putting up shields, teleporting away and blowing up everything.
Being serious here now, I understand that we have to be consistent but it's pretty obvious that if a character can do something they can. Flash can IMP a white martian one or 1,000 times instantly, after a certain speed actions begin to happen simultaneously. He OHKO'ed a Superman level character and sent him into space.
Now hasn't Drax and Gamora given Thanos some pain?
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