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Why fangirls love to ruin good characters?
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Sparrabella
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Originally posted by Bwa Ha Ha
We totally want to discuss, it's just that some of us can't be here more often...

Sad. So sad.

But anyway! I say we discuss characters and plot holes. I don't see why not, and it would kind of overlap with the other, anyway. Like motivation and all that.


This what bugs me about Will as the Captian of the Flying Dutchman plot holes (or should I call it Swiss Cheese? stick out tongue ):

a) In DMC, Tia Dalma said that Davey Jones cut his heart becuase of the heartbreak. Apprently, he didn`t know that heartbreak is a nervous system thing and that he should`ve removed his brain, but anyway, the point is that heart cutting has nothing to do with captaining that ship. It is only Jones`s childish overreaction to being dumped. It is not the requirement to become the captain.

b) In AWE, Jones pretty much confirms that he was the captain before cutting his heart when he says that he served Calypso for 10 years but when his one day on the shore came, she wasn`t there for him. That`s what caused the heartbreak and the infamous heart-cutting which he could do because he was immortal.

Now, why did they cut Will`s heart in order to make him the captain? It isn`t a requirement and there is no reference where Jones managed to override Calypso`s design for the captian by adding heart-cutting as a must. When it was said that stabbing Jones`s heart means the stabber will automatically become the Captain, it should mean magic connection. But heart-cutting? Makes no sense since the intention was to soothe the heartbreak. That`s all.

Now, how the curse works? According to the movie, and especially Will and Bootstrap convo before the ending, CotFD is endlessly bound to the ship in order to ferry souls of the dead. So that`s all he does, ferries souls. But every 10 years, he can come on the shore for one day only. And then the 10 year cycle on the sea hits again.

That makes sense but, because fangirls screamed bloody murder over this dark ending for Willabeth (not that I think it`s a good ending, quite the contrary), the writers chickened out and said in an interview that Will could be free after 10 years if Elisabeth was faithful to him. I have even bigger isues with this compromise and here is why:

a) what`s the point of the rather cruel 10 year separation if Elisabeth`s faithfulness isn`t tested in any way? First of all, every man who could pose a temptation to adultery is removed from her path. Jack is gone to a new adventure and, yes, their goodbye was final. Norrington is dead and if you are a Beckabeth or Fengabeth fan, they are dead too. Second and most importantly, she is given the #1 man in her life who is also a constant reminder that she should live a pious life - her and Will`s son. So being faithful is piece of cake in this case which kills the whole point of eventual breaking of the curse. It should`ve been much harder in order to prove that feelings are true

b) When the curse is broken, what of Will? His heart won`t jump back into his body. So he`s a freak. Is he still immortal meaning he won`t age or die while his family will?

c) What of the Flying Dutchman? They said the Dutchman must always have the captain but if Will is set free is that the end of the Dutchman? Or will Calypso put it on autopilot? or will someone else have to volunteer or be forced to ferry souls? Which, again, kills the point of the curse breaking by living a pious life because that`s a condition that doesn`t have anything to do with Elisabeth`s faithfulness.

Complete mess. Seriously, for me, AWE ended when they entered the Locker to save Jack and the rest of the movie is just Locker-induced nightmare for the crew that never made it out of the Locker and is waiting for the movie that will give everyone a proper conclusion. So Will never became the CotFD (it`s just his biggest fear), Jack never lost Pearl to Barbossa (his biggest fear too), Feng and Norringotn never died (Elisabeth`s fear that she`s indeed the Kiss of Death) ,etc. wink

Old Post Feb 9th, 2011 11:36 PM
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Bwa Ha Ha
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Oooh, I like your questioning. Let's see...

a. Well, yeah, but that can be explained by of 'mythical tale'. But I'm technical and thought the same you did...

b. I remember there being a discussion here some time ago about that... I think one theory was that by 'mythically meddling with the curse and circumstances, he created a second curse involving heart-cutting'. But you do make a point about it never being alluded to.

And then...

a. Well, just because all the other guys she knew are dead doesn't mean she can't find a new one. But yes, with a child and all the moral issues surrounding it, I can see why it would be incredibly difficult, though not downright impossible.

b. Never gave much thought to this... Maybe his heart will 'mythically reappear in his body'...

c. Well, before Jones's curse, I imagine someone else was in charge. Or not. It'd just go back to the way it was before.

But yeah, AWE wasn't the best one. Not that it wasn't entertaining. Just confusing and not the best.


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Old Post Feb 12th, 2011 06:51 AM
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Sparrabella
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Originally posted by Bwa Ha Ha

a. Well, just because all the other guys she knew are dead doesn't mean she can't find a new one. But yes, with a child and all the moral issues surrounding it, I can see why it would be incredibly difficult, though not downright impossible.


This just reminded me what one of my biggest beefs with AWE is - that Will didn`t set her free from waiting 10 years in celibacy but actually told her to wait ( keep a weather eye on the horizon...it(my heart) has always belonged to you...will you keep it safe? ). IMO, that was a huge blunder on the writer`s part because Will is the most self-less character in the saga...until that moment. I mean, the guy saw her kissing Jack in DMC and decided to give her some space and save her lover from the Locker. What happened?

Asking her to faithfully wait is cruel and unnatural. Especially since the movies established Elisabeth as someone who longs for sexual freedom ( if it wasn`t for these bars, I`d have you already and I so want to be married that wasn`t about marriage itself but sex). Yet Will not only didn`t set her free in that department, but he locked her up in an invisible closter.

Which is a poetic justice come to think of it. First, she dumped Norrington who, from her completely biased POV, represented repression. Yet he was actually the one who gave her freedom to choose sexual partner (Will) and freedom from having unwanted/loveless sex (with him). Then, she killed Jack who understood what she really wanted and was ready to give her ( I am the captain of a ship...and I could perform the marr-i-age...right here...on this deck...right NOW! wasn`t about Jack wanting to settle down but Jack offering a nooky on the deck smokin' ). Not to mention that convos she had with Jack about freedom, curiosity, presuation, where the compass points and why were more psychologically freedom-setting than anything she ever talked about with Will.

OK, bad writing aside, lets pretend characters are real, why didn`t Will set her free like Norrington and Jack? Because as Jack pointed out, he is a eunuch. Not a physical but psychological one. He can wait. He doesn`t feel the urge. There is this bit of the writers commentary on DMC BD where they say that Will was teaching Elisabeth swordfighting while she was hoping they would be consumating their relationship. Hence why she is so frustrated and starts getting attracted to Jack for he is the walking sex. And later the Kiss for the Ages is her way of slaking her lust. There was no lust-slaking during her engagement with Will and there`s certainly none in their marriage for 10 years after their mutual cherry-popping.

So sexual abstinency comes easy to Will and he thinks it will come easy to her (typical soulmate myth). This is partly because Will is a hopeless romantic and thinks that strong emotions defy physical temptation and matter the most and partly because he sexually matured later than Elisabeth. Will is a virgin. Eunuch is just Jack`s mocking way to say it but it means just that. Which is super adorable if you ask me. He was saving himself for the wedding night hence why he thought her swordfight instead of taking advantage of her even though she was more than willing.

However, Elisabeth, who is a virgin too, matured earlier and Will never really figured that out (hence why he asked her to wait for 10 years). Girls mature faster than boys and Will had a misfortune to be not only a fatherless boy but without a other male figure that would take care of him in that department. So the mix of parental depravation, loneliness (he doesn`t seem to have any friends) and romantic fantasy about Elisabeth, created a psychological eunuch who is bent on waiting for the proper wedding night than being sexually curious beforehand. And obviously perfectly capable of more long years of waiting. It comes easily to him. There isn`t repression as much as lack of urge. Not impotency, don`t get me wrong, he performed well on his last day ashore, but lets say he is anti-Jack when it comes to sex. Jack must have it and often talks about it while Will is perfectly OK without it.

And Elisabeth? Well, she is now forced to supress her bodily cravings. We are led to believe that her love is so strong that a decade in an invisible closter will come easy to her. So the girl who wanted freedom, including one to choose her sexual partner (aka husband in those times when out of wedlock sex was no-no) and who was dying to have sex, has now chosen sexual abstinency in the name of love. Which is sexual repression, precisely what she was trying to escape (as that corset in COTB unsubtly symbolized).

But what of men who set her free without getting much appreciation for it (last time I checked, she never appologized for either Kraken thingy or public break up)? Why did they set her free, each in his own way?

Stay tuned for more sex after the break rolling on floor laughing

Old Post Feb 17th, 2011 01:10 AM
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but I cannot find a specific forum for classified that relates to POTC. Is there one or a decent place to post? Here's a link to my Jet Ski that was made by Disney for the Black Pearl movie:

gallery at imageshack:

profile.imageshack.us/user/PiratesSki


Thanks in advance, sorry about the shameless posting here.

Doug

Old Post Feb 19th, 2011 03:15 PM
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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2011 06:59 PM
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Fangirls basically wrote DMC since the writers were pandering to their fantasies so much it`s ridiculous. Between 2003 (when COTBP came out)and 2005 (when DMC was shot) this is convo and discussion you could find on the Net:

OMG, OMG, Jack and Elisabeth chemistry is so OMG hot!OMG! I`m fanning myself, OMG, hot,hot,hot! The chemistry! Fireworks! OMG! How hot the kiss would be? OMG, I think I might burn if I ever watched that hotness! OMG, I so want to see the kiss! (twenty million agreeable responses)

OMG, OMG Will is so OMG hot OMG! I want to see him shirtless! OMG, that would be too hot! I might explode if I witness that hotness! OMG! They must take his shirt off! MUST! (eighteen million agreeable responses)

OMG,OMG, what do you think Norrington is like without wig and when he loosen up? You think he may be hot? Plus million dollar question - is his chest smooth like Will and Jack`s or hairy? (fifteen million responses)

So DMC comes out and - surprise, surprise - we get:

Sparrabeth kiss aka Kiss for the Ages (yes, that hot)

Shirtless Will (really hot)

Totally loose drunk, dirty, angsty Norrington (raw sex) and an answer to million dollar question (hairy chest)

I can`t for the love of me understand how AWE went so screwy and anti-fangirl wet dream after fangirl lovefest that was DMC. Either way, I`m glad they wrote that movie which I love as much as I hate AWE (means uber-much).

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2011 01:41 AM
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I love dmc no question, and i hate awe also no question, you gave a good post


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2011 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by killamikeisback
I love dmc no question, and i hate awe also no question, you gave a good post


Ah, it warms my heart that someone else loves DMC and hates AWE. It`s been , what, 4 years since that horrid movie and I still can`t get over it. I mean, how could the same people who wrote COTBP and DMC write this abomination? Ok, so you provoked my rant hormone and here`s the rant (too late cause the issue was hot 4 years ago but, as I already pointed out, this is a hot topic for me forever).

Let me start with lame-o deaths. This has always been a huge point of controversy that AWE offed 5 characters in entirely bafling fashion.
So in order of apperance:

Governer Swann. This character dies off screen and conveniently pops up in the underworld to spout a major piece of exposition. Why did this suck? Because of the convenience of BP sailing past his boat of all boats so that they cna get the piece of exposition. Totally cheesy. And they didn`t explain the difference between souls in the water and the dead in the boats. They just invented boats so that Elisabeth could recognize her father. Lame, but not as lame as...

James Norrington. Of all lame AWE deaths this one sparked the most outrage. After building the character for something important in DMC, they decided to wrap him up unceremonially in a cliche death-to-save-OTL (One True Love). This is wrong on so many levels so lets cover them all.

First and foremost, Norrington is a warrior, a soldier, a Spartan if you will. His death wish isn`t saving OTL like Will`s (I`d die for her!) but a glorious death in battle. That how military types like him, King Leonides and General Maximus think.And we know Norrington is fearless, life or death, he doesn`t fear any.

Second, considering all the baggage that Norrington carries on his consciousness (wrecking Dauntless and all those men aboard, being the right hand to the dictator who is arbitrary hanging women and children) , saving OTL doesn`t even approach first step in redemption staricase. If they had him escape with Elisabeth, reach Shipwreck Cove, use his expertise in military strategy to organize pirates to win the battle against much stronger enemy, and have him die knowing that his help was crucial in crushing the dictatorship, that would count for something. I mean, they promoted him into Admiral. How hard it is to give him Admiral Nelson death? All that doesn`t even require that he is on the screen for more than 15 minutes longer than he was. If they wanted him to die which is darn shame cause DMC`s pirate Norrington had amazing potential.

Third, the guy is a proven badass. Sloshed or sober, he can kick ass like nobody`s business. So how on earth he got ran through by some Z-grade deranged fishman? He didn`t even fight, just got ran through. Amensia virus? It`s impossible that he would go dumb in such situation, Elisabeth distraction or not, cause he is a freakin soldier, Spartan, fight is his natural reflex. That was beyond out of character but we`ll encounter the same amnesia virus again.

Fourth, capping off popular character`s death with supposedly comic relief line Nice sword was complete disrespect to fans and character. When I saw the movie at the theater, nobody laughed. In fact, quite a few cringes and angry murmurs were heard.

William Turner. This is, like, the best swordsman in the Caribbean. You wouldn`t know if you only saw how Jones overpowered him in,like, 3 seconds in what was supposed to be comical moment. Not that anyone laughed. He can also wiggle out of any tight situation except the one in which Jack distracted Jones for enough time for Will to run over to grossery store, get some booze, come back and get the gang together for a drinking game. But he didn`t. Yes, the infamous amnesia virus strikes again. William Turner forgets to be active. Jones has him at the point of the sword, turns his head away, looks at Jack, chats with him, makes some snarky comment about Elisabeth while looking at her, while Mr Wiggle Out of Any S*** is lying on the deck as if sunbathing, doing nothing. How about rolling away from Jones? Crawling away? No? That`s so out of character. Then Jones stabs him and everyone is passive. So Jones pauses, enough time to club him over the head, stab the heart, ANYTHING. Hell, nothing. So Jones proceeds to drill an oil hole in Will`s chest. That could`ve been avoided and the first stab may not have been fatal. But drill was, no question about it.

This is second badass character that dies because he forgot how to be a badass. How could any of them forget? Just idiotic plot device whose purpose was to get them die.

Also, they built the melodrama about Will choice between his father and Elisabeth. Is he going to choose Bootstrap`s freedom or life with Lizzie? And in the end, he never made any choice because he was comatose. So Jack decided for him (when he lead his hand to stab the heart). That cheapens the character so much. Instead of have him man up and decide, they conveniently made the thrid party do it so Will stays in good standing with everyone. Complete cop out.

Finally, unwanted comic relief strikes again. When Jack and Elisabeth were parachuting from FD to BP, camera zoomed on Monkey Jack. Like, Why are we supposed to laugh in a moment like this? Again, cringing audience and angry murmurs.

Davey Jones. After stabbing Will and getting into fight with Bootstrap who is some kind of split personality, Jack stabs the heart using Will`s hand (as if Will did it which is a huge plothole cause Will was unconscious and will for stabbing was purely Jack`s). Jones falls over the ramp into whirpool. Whispers Calypso or something as lame (it`s been 10 years, get over it). We never see if they were reunited even though they built their soap opera like it`s going to be a major thing. Just that. He falls over.

Cutler Beckett. Amnesia virus ends its journey in the veins of one Cutler Beckett. This character is, like, the most evil of any villain. While Barbossa and Jones were somewhat humanized (Jones loves Calypso, Barbossa loves green apples and his pet monkey), Beckett is just a big douche with Napoleon complex who secretly wants to be Norrington because Norrington is tall,brave, can handle a sword and have real authority with men. So Beckett gets to FRP this when he personaly takes the lead of the war armada, not that he has a clue about Naval strategy and tactics in battle . Which proves his undoing but not as much as amnesia virus. The guy suddenly forgot to issue a simple order such as Fire. He chocked. Yep, the pirates win not because they were smarter (although FD and BD maneuver was great) but because Beckett choked. And his dumb crew couldn`t act on their own and salvage the situation (Endeavor`s gun power would seriously damage at least BP if order was issued on time). Complete cop out. Yet, unexplicably, he gets a blaze of glory moment, not Will or Norrington, but they gave him some dignified walk down the stairs in slo mo silliness. As if he was Captain George Kirk sacrificing himself and the ship so that 800 lives, including his newborn son Jim, can escape. WTF?

Other issues with AWE:

Already discussed Elisabeth`s wow of decade-long or longer celibacy because Will asked her to wait. So all the "fight against corset" was in vain. Chastity belt (invisible which is worse) replaced it. I mena, when you look at COTBP ending, where Norrington set her free to be herlsef and with Will, and AWE ending where Will bind her in celibacy wait, why the heck she dumped the former? Is that the message? Scarlett finally got Ashley after dumping Rhett but it was a mistake?

Unexplicable turn from Pirates to Brave Scotsmen of William Wallace of the Caribbean.

Elisabeth`s full-blown Mary Sue (Pirate King, Braveheart speech)

No reference to DMC`s major hook and reason for $1 billion boxoffice and thousands of YouTube vids - Sparrabeth attraction.

Good guys, freedom-fighters Barbossa, Ragetti and Pintel. Are we to forget COTBP never happened?

Cartoon embarrassment that are The Breathren Court. In the movie where a little boy gets hanged, pirates are nothing more than lovable bafoons.

Rossio&Elliott`s inability to stick to their guns. The movie was edited so that it is clear Turner is back for only one day every 10 years. For 99% of population, that`s canon. Only 1% read their attempt to to pander to fangirls with 10 years and then freedom explanation which is a cop out that opens big can of worms and has more plot holes than swiss cheese. And, besides, 10 years or ethernity, Will had no right to ask her to wait. That`s not love or marriage and the message is totally Dark Ages sexist and unromantic.

SingaBore.

Multiple Jacks. I get what they tried but it was awfully written.

Giant Calypso with Goa`uld voice - worst special effect and most pointless subplot ever?

Redeeming spot - the score. Magnificent. One Day deserves much better couple to be love theme for.

Old Post Feb 24th, 2011 02:31 AM
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wow you must be dmc's number one fan how awesome!

Old Post Feb 24th, 2011 08:13 PM
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what was ure fav part of dmc

Old Post Feb 24th, 2011 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by killamike*@(89*
what was ure fav part of dmc


I must admit that I`m an absolute fan of the second half of the movie. I love the movie so much but it does take time to get going. However, from Tortuga onwards, it`s a first-class entertainment with many layers to discuss. So my favorite things in no particular order:

Sparrabeth. This is a classic pairing with all the chemistry, wit and sexy banter that made Rhett&Scarlett and Jack&Rose so iconic. Elisabeth is obviously in a relationship with a man she cannot talk to because, lets face it, we never saw Willabeth having a meaningful conversation. The foundation of their relationship is paper thin, based solely on Elisabeth`s pirate fetish, which isn`t flying too well cause Will is only pirate`s son, not a real pirate. Lets get serious here. Pirate he ain`t. And they can`t talk because they have nothing in common but that fantasy. Only longing glances and angst. But real talk about real issues, especially those that bother her? Never. Enter Jack Sparrow and Jack is wordly man with charisma, charm, wit and sexappeal. He`s a smooth talker but he is also deep. He gets Elisabeth. Will doesn`t. So we get some of the best written Mars/Venus dialog in the movies. This section includes The Kiss for Ages, a trully hot, iconic kiss.

Scruffington aka Norrington gets down and dirty. Aside the fact that he is raw hardcore sex on legs, I loved the character development. Norrington has always been the ultimate Gryffindor (bravery, fearlessness, valor, courage, sleflessness) so it was very cool to see him Slytherin his way because the occasion required. I honestly think they made a huge mistake by not expanding this pirate development because it was a great surprise, really added tons of layers to the character and it was extremly popular with fans. I always loved the character because he is very relatable amid all those OTT colorful characters who are cool but not very realistic, plus Mary Sue and Marty Stu (you know who they are evil face ).

Ello Beasty. Iconic death scene. COTBP had an iconic Jack intro and DMC gave us iconic character exit. AWE gave us nothing but misery.

Threeway swordfight. Of course it was silly but do I get giddy every time. Insanely rewatchable.

Barbossa reveal. Ha,ha, iconic twist. And he`s got his apple too!

Kraken attacks. Just love the Kraken score in the first attack, and Jack`s return with Lizzie clinging to his leg.

Ragetti`s wisdom. He`s a total Ravenclaw.

Davey Jones as the most convincing performance-capture character before Avatar. Really feast for the eye.

Tia Dalma. I liked the idea of having a real woman to offset Elisabeth`s girlchild and back in DMC, there was a promise they`d do something interesting with the character. Boy were we wrong about everything.

Look, I`m not a totally jaded fangirl. COTBP was a better movie as far as narrative flow goes and it was complete. DMC was just first half of the two and they put all the awesome stuff in it to lure people to see At Worst End (not a typo) that pulled the rug from under everyone. But I enjoy DMC more than COTBP which I also totally adore.

Old Post Feb 24th, 2011 11:42 PM
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Threeway swordfight. Of course it was silly but do I get giddy every time. Insanely rewatchable.

same here i love that part

Old Post Feb 25th, 2011 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by killamikeyd9898
Threeway swordfight. Of course it was silly but do I get giddy every time. Insanely rewatchable.

same here i love that part


Choreography was awesome but also fighting styles said a lot about characters. I loved how Will was fighting all fair while Jack and Norrington were fighting dirty to the core (trip overs, pushing, kicking sand in the face). Which just adds evidence to my theory that Norrington was never a model Navy boy but pirate mind all along. I mean, to be good at hunting pirates, one has to think like one, no? We got plenty of it in DMC after foreshadowing in COTBP (when he tried to blow up HMS Interceptor).

Last edited by Sparrabella on Feb 25th, 2011 at 12:30 AM

Old Post Feb 25th, 2011 12:26 AM
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i agree the norrington had a pirate mind, but i can understand y jack was fighting dirty cuz he is a pirate. but for norrington he had to learn to think like a pirate to hunt them like you said


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2011 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by kilamike4568103
i agree the norrington had a pirate mind, but i can understand y jack was fighting dirty cuz he is a pirate. but for norrington he had to learn to think like a pirate to hunt them like you said


Which nicely underlines that they aren`t very different. Come to think of it, Jack finds himself in the worst situation of his life when Barbossa leaves him on a desert island with no visible way of escaping and what does he do about it? Gets drunk. Norrington finds himself in the worst situation of his life (he`s just survived hurricane which his crew and ship didn`t, he is pennyless and in hostile territory) and what does he do about it? Gets drunk. You never see Will react to defeat with drunkedness but Jack and Norrington who are supposedly polar opposites (pirate and Navy officer), have quite a share of similarties:

The above discussed drunkedness in the wake of a tough situation

The already discussed dirty fighting

The way they don`t give a damn about personal hygene in the presence of a lady they fancy or at all. Jack is always on dirty-smelly side while Norrington topped that in DMC without flinching or feeling embarrassed. He was totally Frankly my dear, I don`t give a damn (what anyone thinks). Which is very Jack attitude.

The way they screw over one another - Jack by commandeering the Interceptor and Norrington by robbing Jack of DJ`s heart except that when Norrington screws you over, consequences are deadly...Jack always leaves you a nice way out.

I`m sure there are more similarities (Sparrington fans would know, lol) but these stand out. Too bad AWE just...eh. As if whether Jack did some out of the left field character a great dishonor is more important than Jack and Norrington facing each other after Norrington got even for Interceptor by stealing the heart. Come to think of it, Jack finds a chest in the presence of Elisabeth and Norrington. So there`s this moment with Jack in the middle and Norrington and Elisabeth on each side. Neato since Norrington and Elisabeth did him in - Norrington by robbing him off the leverige which totally handed them over to the Kraken, and Elisabeth by chaining him to the mast so that the Kraken wouldn`t take the rest of them.

Old Post Feb 25th, 2011 12:42 PM
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i think that the life of anyone tring to hunt a single enemy such as pirate.

you start to become what you despise classy story

Old Post Feb 27th, 2011 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by kilasplice43897
i think that the life of anyone tring to hunt a single enemy such as pirate.

you start to become what you despise classy story


You are right and I think that it also goes both ways. At some point, one starts to admire a worthy enemy and maybe even envy what they have that you don`t. For example, pirates have freedom to do what they want including committing various crimes. Bacially, they dare to defy the law and even if you disagree, there has to be a sneak admiration for the audacity and sneak jealousy about devil-may-care attitude. In short, one admires and envies the selfish impulse.

OTOH, despite all the fredom to do what they want, pirates don`t have what I call the Gryffindor factor - all the vallor, fight for the bigger cause, selfless bravery that Navy represents. So there has to be sneak jealousy about classic hero image that military has as well as admiration that they put other people`s interest`s and big cause ahead of their own. In short, one admires and envies the selfless sacrifice.

On Harry Potter scale, Navy boys are Gryffindor even if some cunning minds would do well in Slytherin, but Gryffindor prevails because scheming is situational and not something that occupies them 100% of the time.

OTOH, pirates are Slytherins because they scheme most of the time, even though many of them would do well in Gryffindor for they don`t lack courage. But opportunisim and self-interest keeps them in Slytherin.

I would put Jack in Gryffindor, though, as a borderline Gryff/Slyth like Harry. Will and Norrington are big Gryffs (who slip into Slyth only when occasion requires but also snap out of it quickly) . Jones is Gryff, fallen Gryff to be sure but sitll a Gryff.

Elisabeth and Barbosa are definitely Slytherins (with lots of Gryffindor but Slyth prevails) as is Beckett (w/o much Gryffindor).

Old Post Feb 27th, 2011 01:34 PM
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siriuswriter
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Ah Sparrabeth. I love you.

Personally, I would have loved it had the series stopped after number one.

BUT. There were a lot of perks in dmc. like, things were set up and i was waiting for awe to give me the punchlines.

aaand i was grievously disappointed. it was as if different people were behind the whole thing. there were a few wonderful ideas, like the "end of the world." but will and elizabeth weren't talking... and that was enough to crush it.

i can go back to cotbp and watch it ANYTIME. dmc i have to space it out a lot, lot more. awe : i've watched it MAYBE three times.

and... yes. big grin


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2011 11:05 PM
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Bwa Ha Ha
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I remember hating AWE the first few (VERY few) times I watched it, but if you have it on in the background and kinda forget all about plot, it's not too bad.

But you made me remember something I read on here a while ago: The fact that Jack never found out Norrington died. I mean, did he even find out it was him who gave Beckett the heart? It's like... Everyone forgot about Norrington except Elizabeth, and only because he saved her.

DMC greatly expanded his character and after all that buildup... He just dies. Elizabeth notices, screams, then never mentions it again. Wut?


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2011 12:18 AM
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Sparrabella
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bwa Ha Ha
I remember hating AWE the first few (VERY few) times I watched it, but if you have it on in the background and kinda forget all about plot, it's not too bad.

But you made me remember something I read on here a while ago: The fact that Jack never found out Norrington died. I mean, did he even find out it was him who gave Beckett the heart? It's like... Everyone forgot about Norrington except Elizabeth, and only because he saved her.

DMC greatly expanded his character and after all that buildup... He just dies. Elizabeth notices, screams, then never mentions it again. Wut?


That`s certianly the most baffling thing in the whole trilogy and one of (many) reasons why AWE doesn`t sit well with most people. I mean, Norrington totally screws Jack over and we never get to see Jack`s reaction? That`s just complete weirdness.

Moreover, Norringotn works with Jones, actually is Jones`s superior, yet we never get Jones`s reaction to the fact that Norrington is the cause of his misery. Then, when Elisabeth is captured, Jones pretty much can see that Norrington has the same situation like he does - unrequited love - but nobody draws a paralel. Instead, they try to force a paralel with Willabeth which just doesn`t work because of their puppy love.

Now I get that secondary character won`t get as much screen time as leads (or pointless appreance by lets-pander-to-foreign-markets famous guest star) but after DMC built up, surely they could`ve come up with something more satisfying for Norringotn, no? For example, I`m just repeating suggestions from other forums, he could have escaped, organized the pirate armada into coherent fighting force (which they couldn`t because they weren`t military strategists and even Mary Suelisabeth couldn`t pull that one out of her a$$), seen Beckett`s tyrany crushed. Doesn`t take more than 15 minutes of extra screen time for the character. And as I pointed out before, Spartans like him don`t find dying for OTL a worthy death. He made a choice to shoot the rope rather than fend off Bootstrap (knowing that he was giving much weaker opponent a huge tactical advantage) which is because he never feared for himself but did for her, but there is no way that it was how he ever hoped to die.

The kiss was a nice touch, though, basically what GWTW (which POTC ripped off laregely as well as Titanic) descriped as Here's a soldier of the South who loves you, Scarlett. Wants to feel your arms around him, wants to carry the memory of your kisses into battle with him. Never mind about loving me, you're a woman sending a soldier to his death with a beautiful memory. Scarlett! Kiss me! Kiss me... once..." I found this on another forum and agree that that`s what they were going for here. Not romance, not "look what you have missed" but "beautiful memory for the soldier about to die". I`d prefer he lived, though, because pirate version had such amazing potential. Maybe Sparrington fans scared the crap out of Disney.

Old Post Feb 28th, 2011 12:55 PM
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