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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » Why wasn't Luke taught from an earlier age?


Why wasn't Luke taught from an earlier age?
Started by: steverules_2

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steverules_2
The doctor

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: The Tardis


 

If it sent tremors then wouldn't Vader have sensed that Luke was in the falcon when they were coming towards the death star...or when Luke was using the force to blow up the death star. He sensed obi wan but thats cause they had known each other for so long I'm guessing, they knew of each others presence.


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Old Post Mar 4th, 2011 11:19 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Yes of course... That is true.

Maybe training him would have sent tremors in the Force and alerted the Empire to new Jedi. I always thought Jedi were at least sensitie to each other. I'd had hoped to see more of Anakin while he 'helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi knights'. He didn't do much hunting down as far as we saw, only kill kiddies... But that's beside the point.


The emperor and vader felt a disturbance in the force when Luke was being trained.


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Old Post Mar 5th, 2011 02:10 AM
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steverules_2
The doctor

Registered: Dec 2008
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Did they say they had sensed it?


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Old Post Mar 5th, 2011 10:10 AM
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queeq
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They FELT it... Vader says so.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
If it sent tremors then wouldn't Vader have sensed that Luke was in the falcon when they were coming towards the death star...or when Luke was using the force to blow up the death star. He sensed obi wan but thats cause they had known each other for so long I'm guessing, they knew of each others presence.


Perhaps. But Luke was still only starting out in the Force. He did one trick. OB1 presence would prolly have overshadowed Luke's by far. Perhaps when OB1 had not been there, Luke may have stood out.


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Old Post Mar 5th, 2011 11:19 AM
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steverules_2
The doctor

Registered: Dec 2008
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I'm not sure, I mean Vader didn't sense Luke being told to use the force when Obi-Wan was talking to him, another puzzling situation since that probably took quite a bit of force training for obi wan to do.

Interesting that Vader and the emperor knew Luke was training and yet had no idea where to look. So Luke could have trained earlier, they would have felt it sure but I doubt it's like a homing beacon


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Old Post Mar 5th, 2011 10:40 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
From Episode III on to Episode VI, there wasn't a safe environment to train Jedi in; the Empire was looking for them everywhere. When Yoda & Obi Wan went into hiding, they might have pinned their hopes of eventually rallying some surviving Jedi they could find. But the Empire kept the hunt going for twenty years, which is why Obi Wan can tell Luke with some definitiveness that the Jedi were all but extinct.

They likely sensed the great force potential in both Luke & Leia as infants, but then wasn't the time to deal with it. Obi Wan said he would watch over Luke from afar on Tatooine and decide what to do when the time was right. The secret resistance started by Bail Organa in Episode III knew he was there and likely kept in some contact, seeing as Leia eventually went to get him for the Death Star mission. So yes, there were taking a risk by starting Luke's training late, but fate had dealt them this hand and they risked it.


The entire premise of your post does not take into account that Yoda seemed to hid just fine, no problem. The Jedi genocide actually does not mean anything for the premise of this thread's topic.

Meaning, they could have trained Luke from the very beginning Infant rather than a 5-7 years old we see.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Plot holes plot holes... all created after ANH and ESB.


And here is the correct answer to the thread's question. big grin

quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
Do you think it's possible Obi Wan was sleep-teaching Luke in his subconscious, between ANH and TESB? Three years had passed, and now Luke can use the force to pull his lightsaber to him. So I think Obi Wan in his force ghost form was doing as much as possible, before he considered it time for Yoda to take over. Again, radical change from the previous years in the Jedi, because Yoda only taught the younglings before they were paired off with a master. Now it was inverted, with him finishing off an adult Luke.


Sleep-teaching?

Also, Luke was a naturally gifted force users. IMO, he counts as a "genius" among the force users. I think it's more likely that he just figured out that he had TK powers.


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Old Post Mar 6th, 2011 11:01 AM
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queeq
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Vader sensed his force sensitivity during the trench run.


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Old Post Mar 6th, 2011 11:20 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Vader sensed his force sensitivity during the trench run.



"The force is strong with this one." smile


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Old Post Mar 6th, 2011 12:05 PM
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queeq
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THat's what he said, yes.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2011 11:11 AM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
They FELT it... Vader says so.



Perhaps. But Luke was still only starting out in the Force. He did one trick. OB1 presence would prolly have overshadowed Luke's by far. Perhaps when OB1 had not been there, Luke may have stood out.


I look at it this way, that the disturbance in the force is coming from Luke being trained more so than Luke or obiwan himself.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2011 03:28 PM
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queeq
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But that disturbance was felt in ESB.

We were talking about why Vader could't sense Luke, but could sense OB1 in ANH when the Falcon was captured by the DS.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2011 07:29 PM
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roughrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
Luke was about to fall the dark side? I dunno about that, he managed to resist temptation from the dark side...the emperor and his dad both tried and failed.


That's 20/20 hindsight, because we've seen Return Of The Jedi. We're talking about what Yoda and Obi Wan feared in TESB - what would happen if Luke challenged Vader & The Emperor before he was ready. He failed a test in the Dagobath cave, which foretold that he could become someone like Vader in the future, if his focus & training weren't right.

Even by the climax of ROTJ, he was teetering on the edge, being pulled by fear for Leia's future - just like Anakin was on the brink in ROTS out of concern for Padme. Anakin fell, while Luke just managed to pull back.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2011 09:57 PM
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roughrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
The entire premise of your post does not take into account that Yoda seemed to hid just fine, no problem. The Jedi genocide actually does not mean anything for the premise of this thread's topic.

Meaning, they could have trained Luke from the very beginning Infant rather than a 5-7 years old we see.



Yoda hid on a planet that wasn't listed on any charts, and likely wasn't doing anything Jed-wise to attract attention. Just like Obi Wan came to be known as a strange old hermit on Tatooine, rather than a retired Jedi master.

And if you see what I've written earlier, it's likely Yoda and Obi Wan were putting more into looking to find surviving Jedi from the purge, rather than trying to start a newly secret Jedi academy. But these are all questions I imagine will be explored in the live action series to come; the secret resistance started by Bail Organa and Mon Mothma.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2011 10:06 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
But that disturbance was felt in ESB.

We were talking about why Vader could't sense Luke, but could sense OB1 in ANH when the Falcon was captured by the DS.


Ah well that's easy, cause Luke was just starting to use the force so he would have a very small signature unlike obi-wan who vader had been around for 20 years. I would question more, why couldn't the death star scan for life forms instead of bringing a scanning crew aboard. especially if a star destroyer can scan for life forms.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2011 10:17 PM
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steverules_2
The doctor

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
That's 20/20 hindsight, because we've seen Return Of The Jedi. We're talking about what Yoda and Obi Wan feared in TESB - what would happen if Luke challenged Vader & The Emperor before he was ready. He failed a test in the Dagobath cave, which foretold that he could become someone like Vader in the future, if his focus & training weren't right.

Even by the climax of ROTJ, he was teetering on the edge, being pulled by fear for Leia's future - just like Anakin was on the brink in ROTS out of concern for Padme. Anakin fell, while Luke just managed to pull back.


You must have missed the post where I said that Luke beat Vader with anger when Vader mentioned turning Leia to the dark side. And Luke did reject the dark side in ESB, vader tried to turn him so that they could both take down the emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son. He decided to jump rather than turn to the dark side. Yeah, he nearly turned to dark side but the fact still remains that he didn't turn.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2011 12:46 AM
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roughrider
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
You must have missed the post where I said that Luke beat Vader with anger when Vader mentioned turning Leia to the dark side. And Luke did reject the dark side in ESB, vader tried to turn him so that they could both take down the emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son. He decided to jump rather than turn to the dark side. Yeah, he nearly turned to dark side but the fact still remains that he didn't turn.


Yeah, but that doesn't mean Yoda & Obi Wan weren't rightfully worried in TESB that it could go wrong for Luke in the crucial moment. The potential was there. You can't just say "Why were they so worried about Luke turning to the dark side? I saw Return Of The Jedi, and he didn't turn."

One major difference between Anakin & Luke, is that Anakin had killed people using the force in anger & in fear. His years of intensive Jedi training may have helped him get over the incident with the Sandpeople (plus, he was remorseful), but by the time he aided in the death of Mace Windu, he had gone too far and fallen to Palpatine's influence.
If Luke had kept going and killed Darth Vader in ROTJ rather than just sever one of his hands, he was throughly consumned by anger & fear in that moment that he could have fallen the same way. But Palpatine's goading made him pause, and he caught himself just in time.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2011 03:25 AM
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Ushgarak
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Well, this is an old debate. I still contend most strongly that you cannot sense another person's force power and this never happened at any point in the films. Vader's comment in the trench run was just a testament to the skill of his target; it was not meant literally.

He senses Obi-Wan because he knows him. Sensing his presence is like seeing his face.

Why was Luke not taught? Broadly- it just wasn't the time.


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Mar 8th, 2011 at 08:55 AM

Old Post Mar 8th, 2011 08:49 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
Yoda hid on a planet that wasn't listed on any charts, and likely wasn't doing anything Jed-wise to attract attention. Just like Obi Wan came to be known as a strange old hermit on Tatooine, rather than a retired Jedi master.


Wasn't there something about the planet also having some sort of "anti-force" thing going on, which prevented force-detection?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by roughrider
And if you see what I've written earlier, it's likely Yoda and Obi Wan were putting more into looking to find surviving Jedi from the purge, rather than trying to start a newly secret Jedi academy. But these are all questions I imagine will be explored in the live action series to come; the secret resistance started by Bail Organa and Mon Mothma.


So there's going to be a live-action show, after all, eh? I haven't been keeping up, as of late..so I'm out of the loop.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, this is an old debate. I still contend most strongly that you cannot sense another person's force power and this never happened at any point in the films. Vader's comment in the trench run was just a testament to the skill of his target; it was not meant literally.

He senses Obi-Wan because he knows him. Sensing his presence is like seeing his face.


Interesting take on that. I actually cannot find fault with it as your point is further proven in the Case of Luke being able to detect and then communicate with Leia towards the end of ESB. In other words, it wouldn't have worked had he not known Leia really well. This is what I've thought since a kid about that whole telepathic communication scene.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2011 10:49 AM
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queeq
Chaos

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, this is an old debate. I still contend most strongly that you cannot sense another person's force power and this never happened at any point in the films. Vader's comment in the trench run was just a testament to the skill of his target; it was not meant literally.

He senses Obi-Wan because he knows him. Sensing his presence is like seeing his face.


But he does sense the Force around Luke during the trench run. Plus in ESB both the Emperor and Vader link the tremor in the Force with Luke... So it does seem to go beyond simply sensing a presence of someone you know.

But I don't think Force users light up in the universe like little candles...


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2011 05:29 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
But he does sense the Force around Luke during the trench run. Plus in ESB both the Emperor and Vader link the tremor in the Force with Luke... So it does seem to go beyond simply sensing a presence of someone you know.

But I don't think Force users light up in the universe like little candles...


Yup, and with regard to the other post about yoda hiding on Dagobah, i think he was able to do that because of all the lifeforms on the planet that would sheild his signature.


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