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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » Why wasn't Luke taught from an earlier age?


Why wasn't Luke taught from an earlier age?
Started by: steverules_2

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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthmaul1
YES he DOES sense the force around Luke in the trench run. Luke was using the force instead of the targeting computer. hence the line "the force is strong with this one"

and then in ESB with the changed lines the emperor says "the young rebel who destroyed the death star" So they have made a connection there.


No he does not. Your interpretation is simply incorrect. Vader is simply commenting on the difficulty of actually hitting the target, because the target is good at evading him.

The idea that Vader thinks his target is actually a force user is absurd- he'd have reacted FAR more strongly. The idea is evidently silly.

All of this complication is based on this erroneous assumption. Stop being so literal about the use of the term 'Force'. You just need a bit of perspective on the context.


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Last edited by Ushgarak on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 11:26 PM

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2011 10:57 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No he does not. Your interpretation is simply incorrect. Vader is simply commenting on the difficulty of actually hitting the target, because the target is good at evading him.

The idea that Vader thinks his target is actually a force user is absurd- he'd have reacted FAR more strongly. The idea is evidently silly.

All of this complication is based on this erroneous assumption. Stop being so literal about the use of the term 'Force'. You just need a bit of perspective on the context.


Obi Wan told Luke to use the force and then Vader remarked that the force was strong with Luke, so, yes, it's fairly definitive: the force was strong with Luke.

As far as Luke being a force user? ...very hard to say at that point. Luke HAD used the force prior to that scene, so, yes, Luke was technically a "force" user. I don't think Vader was commenting on that, though, because Vader knows that there are no actual force users (the viewer knows otherwise, of course)...I think he was commenting on Luke being a strong force sensitive similar to how 8-year Anakin was for the Pod-races. Any further conclusion would be baseless speculation, imo.


So I agree with Darthmaul1 when he said: "Luke was using the force instead of the targeting computer." But since Luke wasn't using the force, just yet, I don't agree with this: "hence the line 'the force is strong with this one' because that line occurs before Luke starts using the force instead of his targeting computer.



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Old Post Mar 24th, 2011 02:37 AM
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queeq
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No he does not. Your interpretation is simply incorrect. Vader is simply commenting on the difficulty of actually hitting the target, because the target is good at evading him.

The idea that Vader thinks his target is actually a force user is absurd- he'd have reacted FAR more strongly. The idea is evidently silly.

All of this complication is based on this erroneous assumption. Stop being so literal about the use of the term 'Force'. You just need a bit of perspective on the context.


What does it mean then, in your opinion?


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Old Post Mar 24th, 2011 09:57 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
What does it mean then, in your opinion?



I don't want to speak for Ushgarak, but he did say this, earlier, of the trench run which should directly answer your question:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, he does NOT sense any Force around Luke in the trench run; that's the point. A total misreading of the line; he is no more saying that than Dodonna is telling everyone to use Jedi powers when he says 'May the Force be with you." Vader is just saying his target is skilled/lucky.


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2011 10:45 AM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No he does not. Your interpretation is simply incorrect. Vader is simply commenting on the difficulty of actually hitting the target, because the target is good at evading him.

The idea that Vader thinks his target is actually a force user is absurd- he'd have reacted FAR more strongly. The idea is evidently silly.

All of this complication is based on this erroneous assumption. Stop being so literal about the use of the term 'Force'. You just need a bit of perspective on the context.


I disagree. Vader doesn't merely say "the force is with this one" he says "the force is strong with this one". Now every other time someone says this in the movies they are saying that said person has a strong conection to the force, they never are saying that said person is lucky.

However, I will agree that does not mean Vader though Luke was a force user, simply that he has a strong connection to the force.

Old Post Mar 26th, 2011 05:48 AM
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queeq
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Vader in ANH has been shown as an adamant believer in the Force (I find your lack of faith disturbing) so he doesn't strike me as someone who would use that casualy like Dodonna does.


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Old Post Mar 26th, 2011 09:32 AM
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chilled monkey
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Re: Why wasn't Luke taught from an earlier age?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
In Episode 5, Luke goes to Dagobah where he is told he is too old to be taught in the ways of the force and then it is later stated by Obi-Wan that he was their last hope. If he was their last hope why wasn't he taught about the force from an earlier age? Least then he would have been a lot better prepared and probably could done a lot better against Vader, but lets face it...he beat Vader cause he felt anger that Vader wanted to turn Leia to the dark side.


Luke wasn't trained from an earlier age because Yoda realised that the method of training Jedi from an early age and not letting them grow close to others (essentially brainwashing them) was wrong. He realised that letting Luke live a regular life and learn to deal with his emotions and feelings was a lot better than trying to suppress them. That was what the Jedi in his day did and look where that got them.

He knew that when Luke was ready the Force would lead him to his teachers. That was the point. The Jedi needed to go back to following the Force, not following rules and regulations.

BTW: I'm sorry if I sound high-handed, but could you please get rid of that image? It's very disrespectful to women.

Old Post Mar 28th, 2011 02:59 AM
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queeq
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What picture? The one of the donuts?


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Old Post Mar 28th, 2011 07:48 PM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Luke wasn't trained from an earlier age because Yoda realised that the method of training Jedi from an early age and not letting them grow close to others (essentially brainwashing them) was wrong. He realised that letting Luke live a regular life and learn to deal with his emotions and feelings was a lot better than trying to suppress them. That was what the Jedi in his day did and look where that got them.


That's easy to get around: train Luke from an Early age WHILE letting him have attachments. Problem solved, right? big grin


quote: (post)
Originally posted by chilled monkey
BTW: I'm sorry if I sound high-handed, but could you please get rid of that image? It's very disrespectful to women.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
What picture? The one of the donuts?



laughing

The reason this is funny to me: I think queeq thought it was because you thought my pictures were showing sexism because a "woman" had to make them or something...making queeq's comment funny because it requires a sexist interpretation in order to come to that conclusion.


Anyway, Queeq, he's referring to Steve's bouncing bewbeez avatar. lulz


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2011 01:48 AM
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queeq
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Ah... well, the bouncing bewbees are of such excellent quality, they are by now considered a cultural heritage of these boards. Just enjoy them, we sure do. wink


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Old Post Mar 29th, 2011 06:43 AM
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Anakin_the_Hutt
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VADER: HE is here.

TARKIN: Obi-Wan Kenobi? What makes you think so?

VADER: A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it, was in the presence of my old Master.



People give off particular VIBES in the Force. Kinda like, fingerprints. Vader can feel when Obi-Wan is near. Vader probably sensed Luke, too - but Obi-Wan's vibes would've been enough for him to put the station on high alert.

During the Death Star trench, Vader sensed that the Force was strong in whoever it was he was chasing. That wasn't a 'By the Balls of the Force - he's good!" moment. He was LITERALLY commenting, "The Force is strong in this one."

If you're soley going by the movies - how else do you explain Palpatine's exchange with Vader in ESB?

Palpatine alerts Vader of a disturbance in the Force, but Vader says he already felt it.

Palpatine says the disturbance is the guy who blew up the Death Star, who happens to be Vader's son. Vader plays dumb, but Palpatine insists he knows Vader already knows all of this.

Vader then dismisses Luke as worthless since Obi-Wan is dead. But Palpatine KNOWS Vader wants Luke for himself. (even the OPENING CRAWL says Vader is obsessed with finding Luke)

It's when Palpatine says Luke must die because the Force is strong in him, that Vader offers Luke to his Master. The only way to postpone his death.



VADER: What is thy bidding, my Master?

PALPATINE: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

PALPATINE: We have a new enemy...the young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.

VADER: How is that possible?

PALPATINE: Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

PALPATINE: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.

VADER: If he could be turned, he will become a powerful ally.

PALPATINE: Yes, he will be a great assett. Can it be done?

VADER: He will join us or die, Master


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Last edited by Anakin_the_Hutt on Apr 7th, 2011 at 05:04 AM

Old Post Apr 7th, 2011 04:58 AM
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the ninjak
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Because SW is a badly written fairy tale.


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Old Post Apr 7th, 2011 07:42 AM
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Anakin_the_Hutt
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Luke wasn't taught at an early age because of Uncle Owen. In the very first Star Wars movie, Obi-Wan explains how Uncle Owen wouldn't allow him to give Luke his father's lightsaber.

In ROTS - it was decided to keep the children hidden from Vader and the Emperor. Bail volunteered to take and keep Leia safe. Yoda told Obi-Wan to take Luke back to his family. Obi-Wan volunteered to watch over Luke.

Apparently, in between Ep3 and Ep4 - there was a rift between Owen and Obi-Wan. Following the movies - one can assume it had to do with what Anakin did and became. It's pretty damn obvious Owen didn't want Luke to turn out like Anakin...and if he had anything to say about it, Luke would spend the rest of his life fixing moister vaporators.

NOW, why didn't Yoda and Obi-Wan just train Luke and Leia on Dagobah from infancy? Well, it's not "because SW is a badly written fairy tale". It's because Star Wars IS a fairy tale. And anybody who really "knows" Star Wars knows the author did a CRAP-LOAD of research when he wrote Episode IV. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

Apparently, the idea of 2 Jedi twins trained since birth who were then unleashed to go kill the Emperor wasn't appealing to the author. He preferred his Trilogy to be about 2 orphaned twins who were seperated at birth, unaware of their destiny. THAT'S the REAL reason why Luke and Leia weren't trained at birth. It'd be a different movie!


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Last edited by Anakin_the_Hutt on Apr 7th, 2011 at 12:30 PM

Old Post Apr 7th, 2011 12:27 PM
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Rogue Jedi
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Because Vader would sense it. Right?


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Old Post Apr 9th, 2011 05:47 PM
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steverules_2
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I'm not sure if he would..I'm sure Obi-Wan used the force whilst on tatooine and vader never found him and they never found Yoda and I'm sure he used the force whilst on dagobah. So Luke being taught...I'm not sure Vader would sense it although there would be a disturbance...dunno if that would lead him to Luke.


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Old Post Apr 9th, 2011 06:15 PM
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Rogue Jedi
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Pretty sure Yoda chose Dagobah because it was chocked full of so many life forms.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2011 01:19 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Pretty sure Yoda chose Dagobah because it was chocked full of so many life forms.


That and there was "natural" force "eddies" on the planet.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2011 08:11 AM
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Rogue Jedi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by dadudemon
That and there was "natural" force "eddies" on the planet.
And a wide variety of life forms too.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2011 06:13 PM
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queeq
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Like trees.


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Old Post Apr 15th, 2011 10:17 AM
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steverules_2
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I like trees...they make oxygen


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Old Post Apr 15th, 2011 10:35 AM
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