Gimmie a break I don't really care wether you hit me with 50yrs of contunity or not. I don't give enough of a **** about Loki to care about being right. Yea I know Loki has wanted Asagard destroyed before anyone whos read a decent amout of Thor knows that, I just don't care.
Whatever I've been reading nuff Marvel titles for years. I've read Avengers before he was on it and really that should be enough.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Maybe Deadline remembers the dredge the Avengers line was putting out before Bendis came on board? You can say what you will about Bendis (and I think the Avengers needs a new writer as much as anyone) but I also remember the garbage the Avengers was in the 2000s before Bendis came on board and as bad as it is now, it isn't a 1/10th of what it was ten years ago.
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Play League of Legends for free and reference me - GentlemanZombie - when you join
Depends on the context. If they come at BA one at a time, while he won't wreck them he can blitz them i.e. get them out of his way if he wanted. In WW3 the heroes, besides not being the best of the best teams, kind of gave BA a pass.
They tried stopping him without using lethal force and they were also just attacking him by turns rather than jumping him at the same time. We saw what happens when they jumped on him 3 at a time or more, they were able to physically restrain him.
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Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.
The way I see it Bendis was suggesting that Loki wasn't all bad and since I've read alot of Norse Lore thats more consistent with that Loki. Yes, yes I understand they're different but sometimes people get inspiration from the myths (no idea if he did that though). I'm not entirely sure wether Loki showing some remorse is 100% out of character hell villains do reform.
No I don't think I was talking out of my arse.
Not really. He does stuff that can be annoying but like I said I think people blow things out of proportion. You seem to have a problem understanding difference of opinion sometimes.
People are just too fussy.
Bendis doing some bad stuff = hes a moron and doesn't do anything good.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Eh? Busiek's run was pretty fun and is superior to Bendis' work. At least imho. Wrote some great stories. Bendis can write some decent Avenger's work -like his early stuff on Mighty- but when it gets bad, it gets really bad. Bendis is a great writer, at least when he does something like Daredevil. He simply seems to be oblivious to his comfort zone and limitations. Just lacking in self awareness.
Loki reforming is actually good for the character imo. I read a Loki story arch where he takes over Asgard and even with that, there's a prophecy that says he's always destined to fail, and he knows it too.
Kind of hard being a villain when you're working under those rules - make him a byronic anti-hero I say. At least that way we get to see something new.
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Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.
I don't give a shit about Norse Lore. I'm talking about Marvel Comics. Bendis had Loki do a complete 180 out of nowhere. No person with the ability to read could go through the Thor related title issues and claim he was true to the character.
Loki was literally crying on his knees. And this wasn't some grand scheme by Bendis, that was what he intended.
And for the record, any remorse Loki had died a long time ago.
Seeing as how your argument amounted to referencing North mythology.....
I'm not sure what to use here. The classic There is no Chaos Magic" issue, or the recent "Time is Broken" hit.
Personally I liked Busiek, a lot, and I also liked some things Bendis did with the Avengers; he annoyed me the most when it came to events opposed to his actual runs -even if I can't care about Marvel's magic if Bendis is writing-.
I always saw Loki as a sympathetic baddie. Like a Lex Luthor, there's always the feeling that he could be redeemed - if only he had the courage to abandon his pride.
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Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.
You're missing the point. It's pretty obvious that some times in Marvel comics that writers gain inspiration from Norse myth eg one of the reasons why Thor is represented the way he is is due to the Lay of Harbard. The origin of these character is Norse Lore so obvoulsy it's logical that sometimes this will influence them. This is not a difficult point to comprehend.
Also my second point. Villains reform all the time Mags, Juggernaut etc. Everyones probably read stories about how Thor and Loki have gone on adventures together, that version of Loki seems to be getting a push ie villain and sometimes dysfunctional hero
No I'm not talking out of my arse you are again starting to show an inability to understand an opinion which is different from yours.
Exactly what I'm talking about, still banging on about that. So he did that that means everything hes done sucks?
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
A sympathetic villain? That psychopath has been trying to kill Thor since they were children. Every time he stubs his toe, its somehow Thor's fault.
There was the mini in 2004 which made Loki a much more sympathetic character in comparison to what has come before but that was an outlier. Even in the recent Loki mini where they went with a more sympathetic Loki, it was made clear that he enjoyed the look of fear over admiration. He liked it. Loki is a sadistic and murderous character at his core. Fun fact about the 2004 mini, the writer I believe stated the Hela visions were made up by Loki and the new miniseries played on that as well. He's so warped that his very memories of events are false.
My guess? The writer was trying to play on the fact that Loki couldn't bear to know the truth. That no one is responsible for Loki other than Loki.
I enjoy a more sympathetic origin personally but even before he started butchering people, he should have a cruel and sadistic side to him. This mischievousness eventually grows into straight up evil as Loki realizes how much he enjoys power, fear etc. Then at some point he completely crosses the line of any redemption.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on May 2nd, 2011 at 05:26 PM
No, you're missing the point. Norse Lore really has no bearing and cannot be used to excuse Bendis. The notion of Bendis going through Norse Lore in itself is hilarious.
At the end of the day, he straight up ignored what happened in the Thor title. Loki did a complete 180 without any explanation.
It's not a matter of opinion, or character growth. Loki literally saw Sentry bring down Asgard and said it was a job not finished. Then boom comes #4 and Loki suddenly is in tears. Do you not understand that he went from a sadistic murderer who dissected children with Doom to a crying martyr with no actual explanation?
Loki being redeemed is like the Joker being redeemed. There's nothing there anymore. His just hate, jealousy and malice. Loki as he was then was simply incapable of it. It's like Superman or Thor turning around and going on a killing spree without any outside factors. His the god of Chaos and Evil, it's in his very nature. The child/adult Loki scene was very well done because of this. Like kid Loki said, the only person Loki would ever sacrifice himself for, is Loki. Even if he wanted to change, he couldn't, they were trapped in their respective roles which is against the nature of a god of Chaos.
And you know the worst part? This was done instantly without any explanation. He wrote a different character. What don't you understand?
Five gets you ten I can find more stories where Loki is plotting to kill Thor as a child.
Yes you are. It's not a matter of opinion. That doesn't have anything to do with this. Bendis simply pissed on Loki's character. No two ways about it.
What am I supposed to do, ignore it? It happened.
Lawlz at this strawman. When did I ever say everything his done sucks? I've outright said some of the Avenger's work his done has been decent and recently gave a thumbs up for the .1 issue. Unfortunately his run on the main Avengers title as a whole has been disappointing. He should just write the New Avengers and give the main title to someone else.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on May 2nd, 2011 at 05:46 PM
I agree that Loki should not have been written recently as regretful and suicidal.
In Siege Loki saw the extent of his mischief and saw that he created a monster that would destroy EVERYTHING and resorted to helping eliminate that threat. Which resulted in Void launching at Loki and particlising him.
And Loki in the past has done his part to defend. But the idea of him conversing with his younger self admiting shame is odd. I hope it's just the older Loki fooling his younger clone to do enough good to cause some mischief.
You don't have to go through Norse lore alot of people have vague memories of it ie Thor and Lokis trip to Utgard Loki.
Yes I understand that completely. I actually didn't know about Loki trying to kill Thor as a child or dissecting children. This isn't the only argument I made though. As I have already pointed out villains actually reform in comics. Magneto hasn't tried to dissect children but I'm pretty sure hes been in a position were he knew his actions would kill children. Hell even some reprensentations of Dr Doom aren't evil and hes shown to have good characteristics.
The way I saw it Loki hates Thor and Asagard but when he was on the actual verge of actually destroying it he didn't want to do it, he has actually defended Asagard before. Despite all his hate a part of him still likes Asagard.
I'm not even arguing that it's out of character, to me it's not a big deal. Hell Fraction made Punisher allow himself to get beaten up by Cap when hes shot him twice. For me it was out of character but it could happen.
Yes you even stated that you like some of his stuff, the point is you can't keep pinning that shit on him when hes done good stuff.
__________________ Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr
Last edited by Deadline on May 2nd, 2011 at 05:57 PM
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May 2nd, 2011 04:30 PM
And this wasn't some grand scheme by Bendis, that was what he intended.
