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Death
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Daemon Seed
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Death

Do we believe it's the end?

Last edited by Daemon Seed on May 4th, 2011 at 11:35 PM

Old Post May 4th, 2011 11:32 PM
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TacDavey
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Who's "We"?

Old Post May 4th, 2011 11:38 PM
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Daemon Seed
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
Who's "We"?


You, me etc. We may vary in our views. :-)

Old Post May 4th, 2011 11:41 PM
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TacDavey
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Me? No, I don't think death is the end. But of course that is a result of my religious views. In order to debate the finality of death, you would have to debate weather or not Christianity (in my case) is true or false. And I think there is already a thread about that. stick out tongue

Old Post May 4th, 2011 11:50 PM
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Daemon Seed
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
Me? No, I don't think death is the end. But of course that is a result of my religious views. In order to debate the finality of death, you would have to debate weather or not Christianity (in my case) is true or false. And I think there is already a thread about that. stick out tongue


and that's what it comes down to belief systems and faith. I have no evidence what you believe is wrong and you have no evidence to support what you believe. You have a faith though which I do not.

Old Post May 5th, 2011 12:09 AM
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Impediment
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This seems better suited for the philosophy forum, methinks.


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Old Post May 5th, 2011 12:10 AM
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TacDavey
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Daemon Seed
and that's what it comes down to belief systems and faith. I have no evidence what you believe is wrong and you have no evidence to support what you believe. You have a faith though which I do not.


Well... I wouldn't go so far as to say there is absolutely no reason outside of faith to believe in my religious views.

Old Post May 5th, 2011 12:22 AM
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Daemon Seed
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
Well... I wouldn't go so far as to say there is absolutely no reason outside of faith to believe in my religious views.


Well tell me more, have you seen something?

Old Post May 5th, 2011 12:23 AM
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King Kandy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
Well... I wouldn't go so far as to say there is absolutely no reason outside of faith to believe in my religious views.

Oh, do tell.


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Old Post May 5th, 2011 12:42 AM
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TacDavey
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Daemon Seed
Well tell me more, have you seen something?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Oh, do tell.


Well, actually I already did over in the "atheism" thread, I think. But I have no problem going over it again on this thread if I'm not going to get into trouble for it. I dunno if that would be considered off topic or not.

The one I brought up over there was the kalam cosmological argument.

Old Post May 5th, 2011 01:35 AM
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Lord Lucien
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Re: Death

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Daemon Seed
Do we believe it's the end?
"We" believe in magic, in a young girl's heart.

But not death.


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Old Post May 5th, 2011 02:49 AM
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King Kandy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
Well, actually I already did over in the "atheism" thread, I think. But I have no problem going over it again on this thread if I'm not going to get into trouble for it. I dunno if that would be considered off topic or not.

The one I brought up over there was the kalam cosmological argument.

can you explain it here?


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Old Post May 5th, 2011 03:02 AM
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Death is just an end to this experience. Like going home after visiting a crappy trip. In the end you get your T-shirt that says, "Lived on Earth and survived it," Next time I'll pick a better place.

Heck I don't know, somewhere else might be quite boring compared to all I've experienced here.

Damn over achiever that I am.


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Old Post May 5th, 2011 03:34 AM
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TacDavey
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
can you explain it here?


Sure.

Summarized, the first part goes:

p1: Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
p2: The universe began to exist
c: The universe has a cause.

Followed by:

p1: The cause of the universe was either an eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions for the creation of a universe, or a being with a will that has the ability to create a universe.
p2: The universe could not be caused by an eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions.
c: The universe must have been caused by a being will a will of it's own and the ability to create universes. (God).

And, in support of p2:

p1: An eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions cannot create a temporal effect.
p2: The universe was a temporal effect
c: The universe was not created by an eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions.

I think that sums up the gist of it. Now you can pick a premise you disagree with or want more info on and I can focus on that one.

Old Post May 5th, 2011 04:56 AM
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King Kandy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
p1: Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

Actually we see that being violated more and more in quantum mechanics.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
p2: The universe began to exist

Actually this is not known.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
p2: The universe could not be caused by an eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions.

I don't see why not.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
c: The universe must have been caused by a being will a will of it's own and the ability to create universes. (God).

Is this really the only other option you can think of?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
p1: An eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions cannot create a temporal effect.

I don't see why not.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TacDavey
p2: The universe was a temporal effect

Actually this is not known.




Additionally, this still would not support YOUR beliefs (christianity), just the idea that something sentient exists.


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Old Post May 5th, 2011 05:31 AM
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TacDavey
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually we see that being violated more and more in quantum mechanics.


Oh? This is news to me. It seems if something didn't exist and then it does, there has to be a reason for the change.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually this is not known.


Modern cosmology has already determined this. I have several quotes I brought up in the "atheism" thread. I'll have to post them here later, as I have them written down somewhere I would need to dig up again. or you can look for them in the atheism thread.

At at any rate, it is the accepted cosmological view that the Big Bang was the beginning of the universe. In which time, space, and matter all came into existence.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't see why not.


The universe can't be cause by an eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions because once the necessary and sufficient conditions for an event are met, the event will always take place. No matter what.

However, if you want to claim that an eternal set of necessary and sufficient conditions created the universe, you would have to claim that there was a point causally prior to the universes existence in which the necessary and sufficient conditions existed, but there was no universe.

Which is logically impossible.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Is this really the only other option you can think of?


There is literally no other option. It's basically like saying

God or not God.

There is no third choice.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't see why not.


Explained above.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Actually this is not known.


Also explained above.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Kandy
Additionally, this still would not support YOUR beliefs (christianity), just the idea that something sentient exists.


That's true. Technically this argument does not support Christianity specifically. But it does provide logical reasoning behind belief in a God. It isn't completely blind faith, as Deamon Seed suggested. But rather a valid stance that can be debated and defended rationally.

Old Post May 5th, 2011 05:56 AM
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lil bitchiness
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No, I don't think it's the end. I have few theories - we either return to the 'source' or we are re-born as something/someone else. I don't believe we just cease to exist - nothing can be created or destroyed, so our conscience, just like our bodies gets ''recycled''... for the lack of a better word.


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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة

Old Post May 5th, 2011 08:19 AM
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dadudemon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
No, I don't think it's the end. I have few theories - we either return to the 'source' or we are re-born as something/someone else. I don't believe we just cease to exist - nothing can be created or destroyed, so our conscience, just like our bodies gets ''recycled''... for the lack of a better word.


The laws of thermodynamics being applied to our essence/souls? It's certainly a comforting thought.


I have a similar theory that we experience de javu because we are either connected to our "other selves" in the multiverse OR we are continually reliving our lives in an infinite loop and our essence is consistantly recycled and we experience slightly different lives due to the recycle. Since that "essence" is recycled, there are impressions that remain with us each cycle which is why we get very strong feelings of de javu at times.


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Old Post May 5th, 2011 08:58 AM
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lil bitchiness
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I have a similar belief, but I believe the loop can be broken.

How I see it is that we are reborn (that is curse in and of itself) and we live and what not. We make mistakes and choices that may affect others in positive or negative ways.

When we die, before we're reborn we see the mistakes and understand their impact to the fullest. Then we're returned to be re-born - but we forget EVERYTHING from our previous lives and start with a clean slate - we don't remember the mistakes and the choices nor the reasons why we have returned, but instead we have to re-live and re-do it again.

Those who are able to spiritually grow quicker will break the cycle quicker.

Religion according to lil. Teehee


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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة

Last edited by lil bitchiness on May 5th, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Old Post May 5th, 2011 10:26 AM
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Mindship
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Is death the end? In life we can't know. Would we know in death? Only if it isn't. With nothing to lose, I prefer to see death as liberation not termination, the '!' waking up, smiling and perhaps playing again.


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Last edited by Mindship on May 5th, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Old Post May 5th, 2011 11:24 AM
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