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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » Why did Kenobi choose to die?


Why did Kenobi choose to die?
Started by: Galan007

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Galan007
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Why did Kenobi choose to die?

Seriously. It seems like Ben could have helped the cause a LOT more if he would have opted to stay alive... Especially since he knew Yoda was the only other 'actual' Jedi left.


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Old Post May 31st, 2011 10:20 PM
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ares834
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I'd assume he realized that if he continued to fight Luke would stay to help him out. Furthermore, I think Ben also realized he would be unable to defeat Vader. So he sacrificed himself so Luke would run off.


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Old Post May 31st, 2011 11:44 PM
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Galan007
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Yeah, but why not try to avoid the conflict all together? ie. turn off the generator, and gtfo. It just seems like he could have trained Luke much better, and helped the Alliance tremendously, if he were alive.


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Old Post Jun 1st, 2011 03:17 PM
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steverules_2
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I think he managed to help Luke more in his Force spirit form because he was able to watch over Luke a whole lot better...other than when Luke and Vader fought on cloud city. I think he was able to guide Luke a whole lot better and he certainly was helpful when he helped Luke destroy the death star when he told Luke to use the force.


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Old Post Jun 1st, 2011 09:27 PM
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Galan007
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But there was years-long gaps in which Luke didn't commune with Ben's spirit at all (referring mainly between ANH, and ESB.) Had Ben stayed alive, he could have spent that time actually training Luke, no?


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Old Post Jun 1st, 2011 09:33 PM
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steverules_2
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You're not allowed to talk about events between ANH and ESB...that would be counted as the EU I think. Maybe Ben felt like it would be better if Yoda trained him, he could have been communicating with Yoda and convincing him to train Luke. '


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Old Post Jun 1st, 2011 10:37 PM
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Galan007
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I'm not talking about what happened in between that time, I'm just saying that there were multiple years in which Luke didn't speak with Ben whatsoever. Had Ben actually stuck around and trained Luke, instead of selfishly allowing himself to die, Luke probably would have been able to do more than [barely] move a lightsaber with the force by the time ESB came around.


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Old Post Jun 1st, 2011 10:44 PM
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steverules_2
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You are talking about time between the movies though because this did happen between ANH and ESB. He didn't 'selfishly' allow himself to die, he sacrificed himself to give the the falcon and Luke enough time to escape. There was no way they would get away in time if they had waited for Ben.


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Old Post Jun 2nd, 2011 12:55 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
You are talking about time between the movies though because this did happen between ANH and ESB.

He didn't 'selfishly' allow himself to die, he sacrificed himself to give the the falcon and Luke enough time to escape. There was no way they would get away in time if they had waited for Ben.
No. All I'm saying is that instead of going several years without so much as talking to Luke as a spirit, a living Ben could have used that time to train him as a Jedi. It's a theoretical situation that does not involve the literal EU whatsoever.

Pfft, they had more then enough time to escape. Ben is a selfish old man. Clearly.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 2nd, 2011 at 03:35 PM

Old Post Jun 2nd, 2011 03:29 PM
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steverules_2
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Ben could easily train him in spirit form, he managed to help him destroy the death star! He was more powerful in his spirit form and more helpful to Luke as he could quide Luke whenever he needed it. In that fight that I just mentioned he managed to be there for Luke and guiding him through it, if he wasn't in his spirit form chances are he wouldn't have been able to do that unless they were on a cell phone to each other or maybe Ben could be on the side line with a note pad and shouting instructions at Luke through a mega phone.


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Old Post Jun 2nd, 2011 09:46 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
Ben could easily train him in spirit form, he managed to help him destroy the death star! He was more powerful in his spirit form and more helpful to Luke as he could quide Luke whenever he needed it.

In that fight that I just mentioned he managed to be there for Luke and guiding him through it, if he wasn't in his spirit form chances are he wouldn't have been able to do that unless they were on a cell phone to each other or maybe Ben could be on the side line with a note pad and shouting instructions at Luke through a mega phone.
When Luke was on Hoth during ESB, he was shocked that he could see and speak to Ben. That means he likely hadn't communed with Ben since ANH - which accounts for a solid 3 years in which Luke had no formal training/guidance. Surely if Ben were alive, that 3 years would have counted for a lot more - especially considering how fast Luke was able to advance his skillset.

lol, the only 'guidance' Ben offered Luke just before he destroyed the Death Star was: "use the force, Luke." You don't think a living Ben could have said the same thing just before Luke left to engage the Death Star?


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Old Post Jun 2nd, 2011 10:20 PM
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steverules_2
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He told Luke when he really needed it and no I don't because Luke wasn't the one who was ordered to fire and destroy the death star, but he was the only one left who could do it...everyone else got taken out..and when I say taken out I don't mean on a date with vader for a steak dinner.

He didn't seem shocked, considering Luke was able to force grab his sabre (although not very well) he still managed to do it meaning someone obviously taught him how to do it. He was still in the early stages of learning.


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Old Post Jun 2nd, 2011 10:39 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
He told Luke when he really needed it and no I don't because Luke wasn't the one who was ordered to fire and destroy the death star, but he was the only one left who could do it...everyone else got taken out..and when I say taken out I don't mean on a date with vader for a steak dinner.

He didn't seem shocked, considering Luke was able to force grab his sabre (although not very well) he still managed to do it meaning someone obviously taught him how to do it. He was still in the early stages of learning.
Ben had nothing to do with why Luke didn't get blasted down by Vader.

Luke was shocked to see Ben - which implies that he hadn't seen or spoke to him since ANH:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnTG...feature=related
(2:46)

It was never mentioned in the films that Luke was trained by anyone between ANH and ESB. Thus, the [weak] TK he displayed on Hoth HAD to have been self-taught.


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Old Post Jun 2nd, 2011 10:56 PM
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steverules_2
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Thats correct...so please tell me at what point in the movie did Luke say that Ben had taught him nothing? He had obviously been taught to force grab by Ben...if it was simple as being able to train yourself then Luke wouldn't have needed to go to Dagobah for training. He was obviously quided through his training by Ben.

Not really sure thats shock or him trying to see whats in front of him...maybe he hadn't seen Bens spirit but I'm sure he was taught by Bens spirit.


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Old Post Jun 3rd, 2011 01:37 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
Thats correct...so please tell me at what point in the movie did Luke say that Ben had taught him nothing? He had obviously been taught to force grab by Ben...if it was simple as being able to train yourself then Luke wouldn't have needed to go to Dagobah for training. He was obviously quided through his training by Ben.

Not really sure thats shock or him trying to see whats in front of him...maybe he hadn't seen Bens spirit but I'm sure he was taught by Bens spirit.
We know what Ben taught Luke during ANH, because we saw their entire training regimen - and at no point in time was Luke given a telekinesis lesson... He had just started learning how to handle a lightsaber for crying out loud (a task even the younglings of the Republic were more than capable of.) That being said, unless you have proof that Ben instructed Luke in the ways of TK then, as I said before, we must assume the weaksauce TK he demonstrated on Hoth was self-taught. Hell, that may have been the first time he used that ability at all (it was spawned out of necessity, after all.)

And you're sure how? I never heard Luke mention that Ben had been training him in the 3 years beween ANH/ESB... And judging by the look on his face/sound of his voice when he saw Ben on Hoth, he [Ben] hadn't exactly been around much during that time.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 3rd, 2011 at 03:18 AM

Old Post Jun 3rd, 2011 03:15 AM
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steverules_2
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But you have NO proof that he wasn;t around during that time either...at no point in the movie did he say 'I've been self teaching myself everything I know!' To be honest there is proof that Ben had been teaching him but it was just never mentioned in the movies, it was either in books or comics.


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Old Post Jun 3rd, 2011 06:17 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by steverules_2
But you have NO proof that he wasn;t around during that time either...

To be honest there is proof that Ben had been teaching him but it was just never mentioned in the movies, it was either in books or comics.
Thing is, I don't need to prove a negative.

What happened to the no EU rule you mentioned earlier? wink


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Old Post Jun 3rd, 2011 02:42 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, but why not try to avoid the conflict all together? ie. turn off the generator, and gtfo. It just seems like he could have trained Luke much better, and helped the Alliance tremendously, if he were alive.


True. But how could he have escaped? IIRC he was heading to the Fakcon when Vader ambushed him. What else could he do but fight him, especially since Han and Luke weren't at the Falcon at the time.


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Old Post Jun 3rd, 2011 04:40 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
True. But how could he have escaped? IIRC he was heading to the Fakcon when Vader ambushed him. What else could he do but fight him, especially since Han and Luke weren't at the Falcon at the time.
He could have ran away... Always worked for everyone else in the OT. stick out tongue


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Old Post Jun 3rd, 2011 04:47 PM
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ares834
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Where would he have ran to though? He couldn't leave the DS yet as Luke hadn't returned to the falcon.


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Old Post Jun 3rd, 2011 04:54 PM
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