ok, well, right off the bat, let me try to frame it like this: I was hesitant to let you do this with Cable's "potential", because it violated the spirit of the "no amping dupes" and "only dupe meta" rules. Having thousands of herald level characters was something I tried to ban outright, but because you found a legitimate way around that, I let it slide [don't get me wrong, your strategy is awesome, in fact, how impressed I was with your ability to skirt my rules was one of the major reasons I let it happen].
that being said, in this situation, the reason Cable's potential is allowed to be duped is because it is an inherent and intrinsic part of Cable's character that was around long before even the Cable/Deadpool series. The schematics or whatever are not similar to this at all, as they were never intrinsic to Cable or Warlock outside of this match.
Please don't take this as a threat, I'm not saying this to try and penalize you for debating a rule with me, I want you to if you feel the need, but, if you are going to force me into something more consistent about "duping" and "potential", I'm going to make it more in line with my initial rules rather than not. I specifically didn't want armies of herald level characters on a team, and if Warlock's "potential" to create cos devices for all the dupes would cause him to be above the limits, so to would cable's "god cable" potential. Its an issue I'm not going to back off of.
I don't mean this to sound like "be happy I've let you come this far", more "I've already bent this rule pretty far to accommodate your strategy". In my mind, its like you've managed to get a invulnerable character into the tourney, and now you want to make them even more unbeatable. In the most literal sense, you are being allowed to do something I attempted to never allow in the first place.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
okay, now, i just need to be clear what exactly it is we're facing--you have made god cable, given him warlock's technomorphing powers as well as these other amps--cos and dominus--and you've added to that pool's healing ability?
is that right, or did i misread something? i really hope i DID misread something, but technomorphing god cable with pool's healing so he can never burn out is ludicrously beyond the magneto caps--even without the other amps he seems to have gotten in there.....
and all the dupes are..... warlock/jamie/classic cable dupes? or just warlock/jamie?
sorry for the questions, just having a hard time understanding what has been allowed to happen here.
If deadpool's healing factor would cause Cable to never burn out, I'd agree, however, I don't understand why it would work that way.
afaik, deadpool only allowed cable's body to heal from the TO virus, giving him full access to his TP, not amping his body to have unlimited psy potential... I'll glance through the series, let me know if you find anything different
the initial dupes are warlock/jamie/classic cable + technopathy that are allowed to become God Cable (though the how is open for you guys to debate)
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
the hf would keep his body from ever burning out--that was the problem he was having. pool's healing factor ALONE would have him surpassing the killability limit, wouldn't it? i honestly see no way that amalgam can be under the limit. god cable alone is VERY dubious imo. now he's got a bunch of amps and pool's healing??
huh? the dupes are allowed to become god cables? i'm so friggin confused. i thought they were decreed to be only classic cable/warlock? obviously they CAN'T be god cables, right?
pool's healing was allowed with Mimic, and I don't feel it is instantaneous enough to consider him "non-KO-able". The healing alone is not above the killability limit.
Cable burning out was a major part of me allowing him, so there is that. However, and I know I'm probably in a significant minority around here because of this, but I don't see "God Cable" as really being that powerful... God cable + CoS (an amp to tk that is less powerful that his own tk) + technopathy (maybe useful, but not a huge power amp) + Warlock and Madrox (both situated well in the meta tier in terms of KMC rankings) is, imho, no more powerful or versatile than is Doom or comet (or that necromancer character). The healing factor alone didn't push the limits for me, but in terms of not burning out, sure, I agree.
Deadpool can be summoned but not integrated into the amalgam.
the individual dupes may (as in, it is not a violation of the rules for them to do so) access Warlock's powers to rewrite the TO virus
the loophole Ambient found was that he could dupe classic cable, then have the dupes amp themselves to God Cable (in theory, I'm not saying that is what happens, just that it wouldn't be against the rules), which is actually, and inadvertently, allowed under the rules as I have them... and I don't want to penalize someone for reading the rules and coming up with a creative strategy.
Maybe it is an exploit I need to deal with next round /shrug, however, a major point of the tournament was to try and get new strategies and characters involved (to be fair, there are at least 2 such issues I'm watching your team for).
the way I wrote it was that you could not dupe or summon something that is above meta level. The characters being duped are not above meta, but individually amp themselves (something I decreed specifically was allowed).
The problem is what I mentioned above: what happens when a meta level character with herald potential dupes itself? I decided to go with it in Ambient's case because I didn't want to penalize him for reading the rules carefully. I can't find a place where I maintained that dupes were not allowed to ever exceed the meta limit, just that they could not exceed the tournament limit.
I admit it was an error on my part
honestly, I was thinking more about not letting Magneto put his shields around 1000 madrox dupes, not about someone making 1000 metas into heralds. The worst I thought was some Rogue type play, but I couldn't imagine a Rogue + "dupe power" that was still meta level
its written like:
and I even mentioned my desire to not have herald level armies, but I don't think it is right to penalize a participant because I didn't do so well enough, or, at least I wont penalize yet.
EDIT:
I am allowing the amalgam dupes of Warlock/Cable/Madrox to use Warlock's power in order to rewrite the TO virus
the outcome of such an action is more a matter of your debate/judge opinion.
if everyone is in agreement that this produces thousands of God Cable amalgams, then yes, I feel I am obliged to allow that, because it isn't a violation of any specific rule.
__________________ yes, a million times yes
Last edited by tsilamini on Jun 16th, 2011 at 01:08 AM
dupes becoming god cable is just a tad more than a simple shield buff
cable is held back by the virus in his system, by removing it and then duplicating him you make herald levelers masquerading as metas that can amp as well.
"Summoned and duplicated characters may receive no power amping whatsoever, this includes shielding."
^ kinda conflicting, as i had to rescind my shielding
__________________
Last edited by psycho gundam on Jun 16th, 2011 at 01:19 AM
which is why I'm watching this match to see how problematic it becomes
from my reading of it, the dupes "rewrite" the virus after duplication
I changed that after I realized it would stop you from summoning a character that could adequately defend itself. So, say you summoned Bishop, with that rule, he would be unable to absorb energy, as it would be an amp.
The problem is, I left the amp limit the same for summoned and drafted characters. Ambient even asked me about that specifically, and I answered that the limits were what are stated in the rules.
if you had amalgamated Magneto with your summoned characters, he would be able to shield them.
__________________ yes, a million times yes
Last edited by tsilamini on Jun 16th, 2011 at 01:22 AM
I changed that after I realized it would stop you from summoning a character that could adequately defend itself. So, say you summoned Bishop, with that rule, he would be unable to absorb energy, as it would be an amp.
The problem is, I left the amp limit the same for summoned and drafted characters. Ambient even asked me about that specifically, and I answered that the limits were what are stated in the rules.
if you had amalgamated Magneto with your summoned characters, he would be able to shield them they would be able to use magneto's shields on themselves.
****
this is, I think, 2-3 posts under the rules on page 6 of the tournament thread:
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
no convenor can EVER get everything. which is PRECISELY why the no loophole clause exists. we'll debate the match, but, while it is clever enough loopholing, it is STILL the very definition of loopholing and frankly, i think it's bs that it is being allowed to occur for 2 reasons--1--we have to face a 1000 god cables or try and somehow prove he can't make them (which makes the match boil down to whether we can disprove his prep, never a great thing for a match to hinge on), and, 2, it penalizes AMBIENT as well. if he DOES win, and he DOES get his 1000 god cables banned later on, his entire strategy and reasons for drafting his guys in the first place, which you ok'd, will now be rendered null and void.
meh, you're the boss and i'm done arguing my point but this will very likely only end ugly.
THE LOSING PARTICIPANTS WILL STILL MOVE TO THE LOSER'S BRACKET, BUT WILL NOT BE AWARDED A LOSS TOWARD THEIR TWO LOSS ELIMINATION COUNT. BRACKETS WILL BE REDRAWN TO ACCOMMODATE THIS WHEN NEED ARISES.
[heh, awarded is probably not the best term there]
__________________ yes, a million times yes
Last edited by tsilamini on Jun 16th, 2011 at 02:20 AM
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