You're saying that Surfer has dozens of performances on the level of Hal's Krona busting, and unless Hal repeats it that many times, he's nowhere near him.
You're challenged to provide those performances.
After an attempt at deflection that only made me laugh, you say "killing Krona in one-shot..well Surfer has done planet evolving and stuff!".
How can anybody look at this and not think you're an idiot?
I'll put it simple enough for even you to understand: Give me comparable combat performances from Surfer, dozens of them, rivaling Hal's one-shotting of Krona.
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
Last edited by Philosophía on Sep 2nd, 2011 at 05:05 PM
Do think that Hal would resort to the Krona Killing shot in a forum battle normally, though, Phil? And do you think he'd be able to do this and Thor wouldn't be able to deflect the blast or outright absorb it with Mjolnir?
I didn't rely on artifical distinctions in my statement. I don't separate a feat like Hal busting Krona, from a feat like Surfer absorbing Uni-Lord's power, or swallowing Aegis/Tenebrous with Big Crunch energy, or throwing out planet-busting attacks to wreck Terrax/Morg, as if they're completely different from each other.
Whether or not I think your trepidation over space cheese is completely ham-fisted or not, I still don't see how I can be held accountable for your theory. How about you stop trying to save face and act like you didn't move the goalposts when I'm the one that made a statement and don't share your dubious dinstictions and never did?
Get mad. I used to tell you to get over it. You never do. So get mad.
If he'd see it coming sure. But he can't react to absorb a Green Lantern energy blast if he hasn't prepared for it beforehand. Not to mention that the blast might aswell come while Thor is battling with his constructs. And Hal can make constructs that even Thor would find it hard to get through.
I'm sorry for overestimating your intelligence, then. I guess you can compare actual combat performances to planet healing, or world peace. Because there's a clear correlation between them, you see, and it paints a clear comparison between their respective direct combat capabilities - when one can one-shot being so far above their class it's ridiculous while the other ... heals planets, brings happiness and goes into blackholes. Thus the former has a long way to go to match. I don't know whether to laugh, or laugh harder.
Don't project with "you're mad, I told you not to be mad, dude!!" or the "get over it!!" (which doesn't even..make sense?). I'm trying to save face because it didn't cross my mind that when you were reffering to Surfer having so many high-feats compared to Hal's ridiculously impressive combat performance of one-shotting a being that should crush him like a bug, you'd bring up "planet healing and world peace"? You're right, that really makes me ashamed. Foul me.
Here: Show me one, just one direct combat performance from Silver Surfer, under his own power, that compares to Hal one-shotting Krona.
I'll wait.
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
Last edited by Philosophía on Sep 2nd, 2011 at 05:34 PM
I get it, the power required for Surfer to accomplish any of those feats must completely and utterly be diminished by a large quotient from the power required for Hal to kill Krona because Surfer performed them in space.
Thus, your hasty attempt to challenge my statement was completely justified. Because I accepted your rationale this entire time and I think it makes perfect sense. No, wait. Your rationale is semi-retarded. I never accepted it. I never made a statement, that took that semi-retarded rationale into account.
Yet somehow, you're justified in challenging my statement that couldn't give two sh1ts about your semi-retarded rationale. Get mad. Of course, you could just keep trying to move the goalposts to pretend that you're not chewing on your own foot. But whatever, I never expected you to be above desperately quaneuvering like a flopping fish on a boat deck.
You really don't. But your attempts to get it, and your subsequent off-base interpretations, deflections and projections worthy of a bullshitting marathon is certainly quite a sight to laugh at. Don't worry, I wouldn't make the mistake of thinking you as even mildly capable of understanding anything that doesn't fit your bullshit-painted picture of performances intereptations and character standings.
Get smart.
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
Fair enough, but Thor's probably more likely swatting/deflecting blasts than trying to absorb them or redirect them at the source, especially current Thor.
I love Hal, but he isn't winning a feat war against Surfer. Even taking Krona busting into account, Norrin has a pretty solid history of big feats, making stuff like Krona busting an outlier by comparison...
That said, Hal should be a good fight for Thor, depending on how he approaches him. Pure ring blasting probably won't get him anywhere, but he has more effective options, like trying to mob him with ring constructs, which even Thor may struggle against given ring constructs are capable of FTL speeds and can be amped enough to harm the likes of Superman..
And your self-serving theory isn't worth the laugh. As far as I can surmise, DC space cheese counts, Marvel space cheese doesn't. Doesn't matter though, you thinking I haven't "gotten" it yet is an indication I'm doing something right. You've managed to exceed the upper limits of irony here. But I'll consider that feat to be "space cheese" so it won't count against you.
Anyway, nice long-winded attempt to deflect from the fact that you moved the goalposts to save face for challenging a rather unextraordinary statement (and only one narrow piece at that). It wasn't completely transparent from the get-go.
Surfer does have a larger history of high feats than Hal, but really that's understandable due to:
- We're not talking about PC Hal, which eliminates a lot of Hal feats
- Hal was dead/the Spectre for a long time post-crisis
- Hal shares GL time with 3+ others (Kyle, Guy, John).
Personally, I have to believe that anything any other GL has done, Hal can do too. It goes with the whole "greatest GL" thing he has going (not that I like that status one bit).
If you combine all the GLs, their feat history rivals Surfer's.
and frankly, Terrax/Morg don't rival Krona w/ all rings & entities. Sorry, that's just the way it is. That's not to say that Surfer's not impressive, or that his other feats aren't impressive. (I'd give Surfer the vast majority over Hal, for the record).
What I guess I'm trying to say is this: ODG, your arguments are biased and you're ridiculously arrogant in your debating style.
That said, Thor wins 7-8/10
__________________
"And then there was nothing. A once broken something now void.
And on the first day, Doom spoke... 'Be.'
And then there was life."
^ I searched for the number of posts where he said "space cheese" to edumacate myself. There were two posts. Wasn't hard. Also, between Frankie Raye Nova, Doom w/PC, Fallen One, Red Shift, etc. Power Cosmic Herald feats balloon by a wide margin too. I give as good as I take.
Us completely agreeing with each other in our conclusions still must mean I'm utterly biased though. I get it.
It's no different than saying that Surfer goes through suns, and thus Human Torch's blast would be ineffectual.
The problem would be when saying that since Surfer went through the sun, it means that Thor's hammer attack wouldn't be able to harm him, unless it delivers an output larger than the one Surfer experienced inside the sun, which is several orders of magnitude above even nuclear explosions.
The difference between these two situations is probably too much for a simpleton, but I'm pointing it out nonetheless.
I made that quote a few days after I disagreed with using space cheese the way they're generally used "Surfer went into blackholes, he can't be hurt". There's no contradiction. On the other hand, if there's a direct corelation between one character's abilities, and his abiltiy to hurt his opponent with that specific ability, then there's nothing wrong using it, when those two deal with the same thing - gravity/heat etc. In that case, what was in doubt was Nova's gravity based powers working on Superman. There's nothing contradictory, if you actually are familiar with the medium.
It's a subtle difference, but it' still there for anybody even averagely intelligent who has read comics for a while.
__________________
“Perhaps this is the ultimate freedom. The freedom to leave.”
Last edited by Philosophía on Sep 2nd, 2011 at 06:27 PM
Yes, the strength of a GL's constructs are determined by his/her willpower, and yes, Hal is said to have the greatest willpower of all the GL's. So, he SHOULD be able to accomplish any of the feats of any other GL. Except, there is another aspect to a GL 's power that limits them, imagination; which IMO is underestimated when discussing/ranking GL's.
Maybe if we include his other half of his history (PC), he could very well win a feat war, IMO. Post crisis, he could as well, but higher end feats go to Surfer.
KMC Community Forums
Sep 2nd, 2011 05:03 PM
