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Faith Alone.
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by red g jacks
his post seems filled to the brim with perceived evidence.

Is he looking for proof, or is he assuming proof?

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Apr 17th, 2012 08:07 PM

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JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is he looking for proof, or is he assuming proof?

Neither, I don't have to.

It is what it is.

smile

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Apr 17th, 2012 08:47 PM

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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Neither, I don't have to.

It is what it is.

I would call that an assumption of proof.

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Apr 17th, 2012 08:49 PM

JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I would call that an assumption of proof.

Why would you call that as assumption of proof? I believe that all natural things have a beginning, designer, manufacturer, father, mother, or creator.

This can be proven using the scientific method.

In this case I believe that the material universe and planet earth with all of its complexity and life must of necessity been created. I know of no other Person qualified to pull off such an amazing feat other than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob i.e. the God of the Bible.

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Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

Proof of Hell? || Dr. Donald Whitaker, Research-Scientist/Chemist

Apr 17th, 2012 08:56 PM

Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

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Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why would you call that as assumption of proof? I believe that all natural things have a beginning, designer, manufacturer, father, mother, or creator.

This can be proven using the scientific method.

In this case I believe that the material universe and planet earth with all of its complexity and life must of necessity been created. I know of no other Person qualified to pull off such an amazing feat other than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob i.e. the God of the Bible.

But you do not go and get a science degree and try to prove any of this. You don't need too, because you assume that it is true.

I know that a fresh do-nut is good to eat, and I don't go and try to prove this. I assume that a fresh do-nut is good to eat.

You know that all things around you are proof of god, and you don't go out and try to prove it. You assume that the universe is proof of god.

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Apr 17th, 2012 09:02 PM

JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you do not go and get a science degree and try to prove any of this. You don't need too, because you assume that it is true.

I know that a fresh do-nut is good to eat, and I don't go and try to prove this. I assume that a fresh do-nut is good to eat.

You know that all things around you are proof of god, and you don't go out and try to prove it. You assume that the universe is proof of god.

Well, actually I call it common sense.

I don't have to assume as true what common sense already presupposes.

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Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

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Apr 17th, 2012 09:08 PM

red g jacks
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you do not go and get a science degree and try to prove any of this. You don't need too, because you assume that it is true.

I know that a fresh do-nut is good to eat, and I don't go and try to prove this. I assume that a fresh do-nut is good to eat.

You know that all things around you are proof of god, and you don't go out and try to prove it. You assume that the universe is proof of god.

so you can have faith and still use 'evidence', so long as you don't actually try to explain any of it.

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Apr 17th, 2012 09:09 PM

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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, actually I call it common sense.

I don't have to assume as true what common sense already presupposes.

If you have ever worked with someone who lacks common sense, then you will realize that common sense is an assumption. cool

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Apr 17th, 2012 09:10 PM

JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you have ever worked with someone who lacks common sense, then you will realize that common sense is an assumption.

Merriam-Webster's defines common sense as:

"sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts"

In the case of the material universe and world, and the complexity of life, simple perception of this situation or facts presupposes that no natural thing can be without designer, creator, manufacturer, beginning, father, or mother.

It's just sound and prudent judgment of the situation or facts, and provable based on the scientific method.

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Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

Proof of Hell? || Dr. Donald Whitaker, Research-Scientist/Chemist

Apr 17th, 2012 09:24 PM

Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Gender: Male
Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
...In the case of the material universe and world, and the complexity of life, simple perception of this situation or facts presupposes that no natural thing can be without designer, creator, manufacturer, beginning, father, or mother.

It's just sound and prudent judgment of the situation or facts, and provable based on the scientific method.

That is an assumption.

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Apr 17th, 2012 09:26 PM

JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is an assumption.

It's not an assumption if it's provable by the scientific method.

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Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

Proof of Hell? || Dr. Donald Whitaker, Research-Scientist/Chemist

Apr 17th, 2012 09:33 PM

JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is an assumption.

It's not an assumption if it's provable using the Scientific Method.

__________________
Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

Proof of Hell? || Dr. Donald Whitaker, Research-Scientist/Chemist

Apr 17th, 2012 09:34 PM

lil bitchiness
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why would you call that as assumption of proof? I believe that all natural things have a beginning, designer, manufacturer, father, mother, or creator.

This can be proven using the scientific method.

In this case I believe that the material universe and planet earth with all of its complexity and life must of necessity been created. I know of no other Person qualified to pull off such an amazing feat other than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob i.e. the God of the Bible.

Why was only the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob capable of making the universe?

How do you explain Yaweh prior to Moses elevating him to one and only God existed as a minor deity in Caananite religion? El being the hebrew word for God, and "El", was also the name of the chief Caananite god, El had 70 sons according to their religion and one of them was Yaweh. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is often cited for this.

How does this fit with everything?

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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة

Last edited by lil bitchiness on Apr 17th, 2012 at 09:49 PM

Apr 17th, 2012 09:46 PM

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JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Why was only the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob capable of making the universe?

How do you explain Yaweh prior to Moses elevating him to one and only God existed as a minor deity in Canaanite religion? El being the hebrew word for God, and "El", was also the name of the chief Caananite god, El had 70 sons according to their religion and one of them was Yaweh. Deuteronomy 32:8-9 is often cited for this.

How does this fit with everything?

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is only capable of creating the universe because He is the living God. All other gods are false, idols, or non-living.

The God of the Bible identifies Himself as "I Am." Jesus Christ also identifies Himself as "I Am.' No other god does this.

Yahweh of the Bible has a Son who died for the sins of humanity, and Who rose from the dead. No other god had a son who did this.

__________________
Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

Proof of Hell? || Dr. Donald Whitaker, Research-Scientist/Chemist

Apr 17th, 2012 09:58 PM

Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Gender: Male
Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is only capable of creating the universe because He is the living God. All other gods are false, idols, or non-living.

The God of the Bible identifies Himself as "I Am." Jesus Christ also identifies Himself as "I Am.' No other god does this.

Yahweh of the Bible has a Son who died for the sins of humanity, and Who rose from the dead. No other god had a son who did this.

Horus!

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Apr 17th, 2012 10:01 PM

JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Horus!

Horus was not resurrected for our sins.

Pharaoh was believed to be the incarnation of Horus and he (Pharaoh) is dead.

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Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

Proof of Hell? || Dr. Donald Whitaker, Research-Scientist/Chemist

Apr 17th, 2012 10:21 PM

Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Gender: Male
Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Horus was not resurrected for our sins.

Pharaoh was believed to be the incarnation of Horus and he (Pharaoh) is dead.

So is Jesus.

Damn! I think I scared him off.

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Last edited by Shakyamunison on Apr 17th, 2012 at 10:28 PM

Apr 17th, 2012 10:22 PM

lil bitchiness
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Horus was not resurrected for our sins.

Pharaoh was believed to be the incarnation of Horus and he (Pharaoh) is dead.

Why is resurrection so important? The sacrifice of Jesus was noble, and I thought it was the sacrifice that mattered.

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Apr 17th, 2012 10:31 PM

JesusIsAlive
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Why is resurrection so important? The sacrifice of Jesus was noble, and I thought it was the sacrifice that mattered.

Final payment for the sins of the whole world had been made through the sacrificial, substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race.

Jesus Christ's spirit then descended into Hades to serve humanity's sentence.

Divine justice and wrath against sin (specifically sinful humanity) had been satisfied.

God did not leave Jesus' soul in Hades but resurrected it along with the body of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ became the Firstborn of the dead when God resurrected His flesh and bone glorified body from the dead and His spirit from Hades.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead thus conquering the law of sin and death. Now anyone who trusts in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin will also be resurrected from the dead.

If Jesus Christ had not risen from the dead then no one else would be able to rise from the dead.

This is why faith is so vital to Christianity.

__________________
Life After Death? || Bill Wiese

Proof of Hell? || Dr. Donald Whitaker, Research-Scientist/Chemist

Apr 17th, 2012 10:39 PM

lil bitchiness
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What happens to those who have never heard of Jesus?

What about those who have been born in any other particular religion such as Hindus or Buddhists?

It's pretty much a lottery if you're going to Hell or Heaven according to your reasoning.

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Apr 17th, 2012 10:55 PM

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