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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » What was Ben's and Yoda's plan?


What was Ben's and Yoda's plan?
Started by: Charlie512

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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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Yes!


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Old Post Apr 7th, 2012 11:00 AM
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Kickballjedi
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Registered: Apr 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ Lol Queeq, you blaming the PT? Im shocked!!!

But yeah I admit no one thought of Luke's training as being too fast before the PT..

It was quite clear in the OT when Yoda says to Luke "No more training do you require" and when Vader says to Luke "Your skills are now complete.."


This is true, but Yoda says this 4 years after ANH, I'm sure Luke continued his training after the duel with Vader, we see the results of that training in RoTJ, including the cut scene where he builds his new light saber.

But going back to Yoda's training in ESB, I think Yoda intended to train Luke for quite a bit longer, at least until Luke could've lifted the X-wing himself. If Yoda could've kept Luke on Dagobah for another year, for example, I'm sure he would've gone toe to toe with Vader when they next met.

And back to the OP- I don't believe Yoda and OB1 had a plan. IMO OB1 was just guarding Luke on Tatooine. I don't think he had a plan to train Luke to defeat Vader and/or the Emperor. Just keep him safe and let him live out his meager life on the dust ball planet. The rebellion, the message from Leia, the death of his adopted parents, these led to the decision to train him.

Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 05:36 PM
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Kickballjedi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah well this one's annoyed me..

Yoda's line: No more training do you require. Vader's line: Your skills are now complete. Luke's line: Im a Jedi, like my father before me.



I see a lot of quotes where Yoda says Luke doesn't need any more training, but as soon as Luke says "Then I am a Jedi", Yoda nearly coughs up a lung laughing at him, says something about training Jedi for 600 years, then says...

Yoda: No. Not yet. One thing remains. Vader. You must confront Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi will you be. And confront him you will.

So by the time Luke says, "I am a Jedi like my father before me," he is a Jedi because he met Yoda's criteria by smacking down Vader.

Old Post Jun 25th, 2013 05:56 PM
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Darth Thor
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Yeah problem is after watching the PT we know that's pretty impossible for Luke to have completed his training that quickly, especially with so little instruction.

Look a Anakin, the Chosen One, he had 10 years training under another Jedi by AOTC, and still wasn't a Jedi. Compared that to Luke's 4 years, with only a few weeks of supervision.

Makes no sense now, and Lucas has confirmed in the ROTJ commentary now that Luke wasn't fully trained.

Old Post Jul 1st, 2013 10:22 AM
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queeq
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And again: the PT ruined the OT.


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Old Post Jul 3rd, 2013 05:31 AM
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Vensai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah problem is after watching the PT we know that's pretty impossible for Luke to have completed his training that quickly, especially with so little instruction.

Look a Anakin, the Chosen One, he had 10 years training under another Jedi by AOTC, and still wasn't a Jedi. Compared that to Luke's 4 years, with only a few weeks of supervision.

Makes no sense now, and Lucas has confirmed in the ROTJ commentary now that Luke wasn't fully trained.

Where did he confirm that? It's nice to know that at least GL doesn't expect us to believe Luke could become a Knight with only some of the basics. Vader must have been seriously holding back against his son on the Death Star.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2013 07:43 AM
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Lord Lucien
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Vensai
Where did he confirm that?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Lucas has confirmed in the ROTJ commentary


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Vensai
Vader must have been seriously holding back against his son on the Death Star.
If you discount the novelization, yup.


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Old Post Jul 7th, 2013 02:46 AM
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queeq
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But the novelization is canon.


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Old Post Jul 9th, 2013 07:51 AM
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Lord Lucien
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F*ck the novelization. It's stupid.

He was giving it his all in the book. Makes more sense and fits in better with the emotional consistency if he wasn't.


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Old Post Jul 10th, 2013 03:21 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Vensai
Where did he confirm that?


ROTJ Audio commentary in the scene where Luke visits Yoda.

Old Post Jul 10th, 2013 10:40 AM
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Sadako of Girth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Vensai
Where did he confirm that? It's nice to know that at least GL doesn't expect us to believe Luke could become a Knight with only some of the basics. Vader must have been seriously holding back against his son on the Death Star.


He made the mistake of angering Luke over the Leia threat.
Luke seemed to be using the darkside, but was able to stop its flow when Vader was taken down, with his innate compassion.
Luke didnt need to be uber trained to get that far, in surviving against Vader long enough for the Emporer to start zapping him to death, provoking Anakin's return..
But the whole Luke ultimate Jedi warrior thing some fans riff on is silly and that Lucas had to spell that one out speaks volumes of their limited view of the whole saga dynamic. The picture was always bigger than that.
Luke was a piece on the board that was to draw decisive action from Anakin, forfilling the prophecy, and wasn't ever meant to be some Jedi Rambo that would single handedly kick all ass.


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Old Post Jul 12th, 2013 03:43 PM
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queeq
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Well, yeah, that would be the post-PT explanation.


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Old Post Jul 14th, 2013 04:36 PM
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Vensai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Well, yeah, that would be the post-PT explanation.

Among other things, made the entire saga revolve around Anakin and led to various retcons to the novelisation.


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Old Post Aug 5th, 2013 09:46 AM
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Allankles
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Registered: Jan 2007
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It was always obvious, if you didn't have rose tinted glasses, that after ESB Luke had almost no chance of saving the day by prowess in combat.

What Yoda gave him was enough understanding and confidence in the force to be a thorn in the side.

After ESB the rebels and Luke only had hope to fuel them, it was a huge gamble, that payed off, thanks mostly to the Force which is greater than Palps and Vader.


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Old Post Oct 15th, 2013 10:47 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Allankles
It was always obvious, if you didn't have rose tinted glasses, that after ESB Luke had almost no chance of saving the day by prowess in combat.



He wasn't going to defeat the Emperor with his Lightsaber skills. Well not anytime soon anyway. That was made clear in ESB and ROTJ even before the PT.

But he clearly was a "Threat" since ANH. The guy destroyed the Death Star which people seem to keep forgetting. So even though we know the "plot device" will lead to a final Lightsaber confrontation where everything will be decided there, that wasn't the only way to be a threat to the Emperor. In the big scheme of things being a great Fencer should be pretty useless.

Old Post Oct 16th, 2013 07:53 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
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I dunno. He did beat Vader and Mace did beat Palpatine. They weren't unbeatable.

But of course, the whole point of Palpy's defeat is, however corny it may be, ... LOVE. Love between father and son. THat surpasses all knowledge of the Force. And actually, I always thought that was kinda neat. And not done in a corny way. I really missed that subtle touch of values in the PT.


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2013 08:12 AM
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