I am not backtracking. I never said "a" Jedi. I said about Jedi who are purely on lightside. In other words Jedi that overcame all their demons long ago, in other words Jedi like Luke, Yoda, Exile, Windu e.g.
You try better in convincing me that Vitiate is better, than her at least in anything. Entire fleet of Gavar Kai fell under her influence and took her side. She just broke away from imprisonment and by Apocalypse is already in charge of all Sith and is Galactic Alliance Chief of State. While your Vitiate was thinking over millenia and started war he could never win.
I am not wasting hours for digging through electronic book on my mobile phone.
How can you talk about my personal opinion if all your conclusions are based entirely on your opinion?
The only evidence video provides is that he used Force lightning to defeat them, that's it.
Exactly, I can't see but somehow you can see, since you said: "Vitiate while bombarding the Jedi with Force Lightning Storm, also broke their will simultaneously and turned them in to his mental slaves."
There are plenty of planets he could do the same thing to and than forbid to visit. Fact: Nathema was the only planet consumed and he never tried to repeat it even after his plans were set in motion.
It is evidenced neither in comics nor in audio book.
Are you gonna tell me what my logic is? And yes, people like Luke and Anakin should be broke to embrace darkside as they are good personalities by nature and as Sith they would never be as powerful as Palpatine because the good in them cannot be eradicated completely.
Yes, they weren't close to darkside, that is why he had to defeat them with Force lightning, so he could dominate them later with their mental guard down.
What else to elaborate on? Trying to win using darkside, when your experience in it is measured by days is just stupid.
Which only shows how good Luke is. Tricks? You are trying to strip Luke of all his achievements by giving lame excuses, while at the same time trying to equal Vitiate to god by giving even more lame arguments.
They had more strength(more power) .
Really? That's why he use Force lightning against 4 Jedi instead of his telepathic bombardment? That is why later against Jedi Knight he used, Force lightning, Force illusions and then again Force lightning and Dun Moch through whole scenario?
Yes, I can't see. What I saw is that non of them got mind dominated during combat.
Like I was saying Revan mind dominated Vitiate. You arguing nothing.
Nope. Luke is comfortable at absorbing lightning with lightsaber. Even without lightsaber a nightsister attempted to electrocute him but he started jumping around and lightning harmlessly dissipated.
Which is your opinion only. All of them stand a chance against master of manipulations as did Revan and Jedi Knight.
Palpatine had much greater understanding of Jedi as he infiltrated Goverment and was communicating with Jedi on regular basis, while your Vitiate spent whole millenia hiding on remote planet using advantage of being imbued by darkside nexus surrounding him.
All Luke needs to know is that Vitiate must be stopped. Darkside is darkside in any form, whether it is Sith or Abeloth or monkey lizard.
It might not be possible to manipulate a pure Jedi but my focus is on telepathic powers.
Tol Braga (SWTOR) was also an ideal Jedi. He was a role model for the whole Order, as apparent from his codex entry:
Respectfully referred to as "the conscience of the Jedi Order," Master Tol Braga is a thoughtful scholar, a wise strategist and an avowed pacifist. His greatest achievement as a Jedi to date was when he dueled Sith Lord Darth Sajar to a draw--and then convinced the enemy to abandon the path of darkness and train as a Jedi.
Vitiate broke even this kind of Jedi who was so deep in the Light Side, and more notably a powerful one.
Do the math now.
Vitiate isn't much different from Abeloth in capabilities. Like her, Vitiate is capable of creating illusions, transfer his essense, unleash blasts of energy, drain his opponents, and mentally influence his opponents.
However, Vitiate also has demonstrated the capability to unleash extremely lethal blasts of Force Lightning. I have not seen this from Abeloth yet. If I am missing any update then let me know.
Then what is point for this debate?
I have explained why. Simple explanation is that you cannot see telepathic powers in action. They don't have colors. You judge their impact on the basis of comments of the characters. I have provided examples. Focus on them.
The comments of several characters support my point. Vitiate broke those Jedi and controlled them through his telepathic powers for a long time. If videos (provided by me) are not sufficient to convince you then consult Drew Karpyshyn in this regard.
Repeat of Nathema like event again and again would not have gone unnoticed for a long time. Nathema itself did not remained unnoticed. After the great hyperspace war, Vitiate was not willing to seek confrontation with the Jedi anytime soon. However, during the Great Galactic War, Vitiate was planning to conduct a Nathema like feat on Belsavis to gain more power.
Really?
LEIA: "I don't need a blaster. Not with what I've just learned about Jedi Battle Meditation." (Source: The Empire's End)
Then try to explain your point better like you did now.
Your point is not valid for all; a good example is Exar Kun.
Their are similar examples of other individuals who were once Jedi but became more powerful and also accomplished more after embracing the dark side.
You don't know this for sure.
Your point is good but my point is that Luke wasn't broke prior to confrontation with Sidious. He was confident.
No, it is a bad example for you to consider in this debate. Luke' past history with UnuThul is the key point here. But Luke has no history with Vitiate. How will Luke convince Vitiate to stop? He can't.
Not a good argument. I am talking about telepathic powers.
You can't pass your assumption regarding the confrontation with the Jedi Strike Team as a fact. Prove it first.
What Vitiate did during his second confrontation with the Jedi Knight is invalid example as well. Vitiate' second confrontation with Revan reveals that he can again attempt to dominate his opponent with his telepathic powers.
Your assumption. Not an established fact.
It was not mind-domination. Revan was not controlling Vitiate. Howeverm Revan did manipulate Vitiate but the latter eventually overcame him after a long struggle. And for your kind information, Revan' case is not applicable for Luke.
A nightsister matches the power of Vitiate? This is not even funny.
Prove it. Revan and the Jedi Knight themselves fell to Vitiate. They succeeded in breaking from Vitiate' grasp through external help.
Here is a hint for you; children of the Emperor. These individuals served as the eyes and ears of Vitiate. The Emperor used these individuals to learn a great deal about the Republic and also the Jedi.
That's why he was defeated with Force lightning. Mind domination came after with his mental guard down. In case of Revan I actually need to give a lot of credit to Meetra Surik.
By the way, you don't know about power of this Jedi. Status of Master is determined by wisdom and experience, not by power and combat feats. Jedi Knight wasn't master, when he defeated Vitiate, neither was Luke, when defeated Palpatine.
Abeloth didn't create any illusions in books. Blasts of energy? Are you talking about Force pushes again? Abeloth could create nuclear bomb out of alive Sith though. xD Force lightning is not news. If we compare Vitiate in terms of Force power, then Vitiate isn't much different to Palpatine in capabilities.
Honestly, I don't know. Good way to discuss Star Wars as I don't have much fan friends in real life.
It's ridiculous to assume that he would be capable to use Force lightning strong enough to make 4 Jedi struggle and at the same time telepathically bombard them.
I am not arguing against that. My point is that he did not mind dominate them in combat.
His plans last millenia.
I am proud of her.
you could at least mention Dooku or Jacen, Exar Kun is the worth example. Selfish and arrogant from the beginning, obsessed with hunger for knowledge to gain more power. In what way was he good personality? Anakin might have been arrogant and easy to get angered, yet, was he selfish? Was he obsessed in learning new powers? Did he have any ambitions? The only his selfishness was in fear for loosing Padme but can you blame him for it? And what love story Exar Kun had? He was bad person right from the beginning, I made effort in searching at least some goodness in his personality and you know what? I found none.
He was struggling not to be consumed by darkness completely, at least Wookieepedia says so. Otherwise we both can only assume.
He will just put up mental barrier, which is easier. In worth case he can make his Force presence smaller and dodge his mental bombardment like Verger. Or even easier, he can Force push Vitiate like Revan.
They used Dun Moch on me.
How is it invalid? Plenty of time to dominate Jedi Knight, while he was having fun fighting illusions.
Second confrontation with Revan reveals nothing. Revan could try resist it instead but preferred Force push.
Not assumption. Visually established fact that they fell to Force lightning. And your laughable assumption is that he was mind dominating at the same time simultaneously all of them.
You don't get it, do you?
I didn't match anything. If we talk about matching, then Luke was absorbing lightning into lightsaber from two sisters simultaneously.
Correction. Only Revan. Jedi Knight fell to Force lightning, he didn't have chance resisting mind domination like Revan.
Apparently didn't learn match over his millenia, I see no cleverness in leading open war.
Mar 19th, 2012 08:20 AM
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Abeloth could create nuclear bomb out of alive Sith though. xD Force lightning is not news. If we compare Vitiate in terms of Force power, then Vitiate isn't much different to Palpatine in capabilities. 
