As for your thesis about ProtoAmazo, which was great btw, all i wanted to prove is that Batman has explosives strong enough to hurt him and slow him down even if they arent the deciding factor, and thats all I want to be taken into consideration. Besides, ProtoAmazo's leg and inferior Doomsday Clones are prolly more durable than Wolvies skin and muscle dont you think?
Yea Wolverine survived but did Mystique tank the explosion as well?
Batman usually has better explosives than standard military ordinance. The main difference here is that Punisher is more skilled with standard ordinance than Mystique as he has been able to disable Wolverines movement with a single bullet and render him helpless with a rocket, as well as that girl that showed up in the Bucky fight I posted who "killed" Wolverine. Wolvie is looking a little worse for wear here as well.
While that is impressive healing, Wolverine is far from fighting capacity here and this would technically be considered a KO, unless we are giving Wolverine time to heal for some reason. If Batman has an eplosive that is strong enough to incinerate Wolverine then its over.
Dang Wolverine got nailed to a tree? lol. How skilled was this Silver Samuria for him to be able to nail Wolvie to a tree like that?
The rest are good feats. Batman wont be counting on a single explosion ftw altho his explosive devices will help. We also have to take into consideration that Wolverine has been incinerated by fire while fighting Nuke before, and again that would count as a loss even if it took a few minutes for Logan to heal. Daken has also been beaten by a Punisher explosion.
BATMANS GADGETS: Revised
I think we can agree that Batman carries Batarangs, grappling hooks, tanq darts, sonic devices, flashbombs, smoke bombs, and high-end explosives.
All of the scans I am posting show Batman using these items without prep meaning he carries these things normally.
Hardening Foam:
Although the fight was planned as you correctly say, you clearly ignored the part where Superman says that he didn't see the "string trick" coming meaning that part was not planned and cleverly made Clark believe that it was fireproof in order to keep him from using his heatvision to escape. Which is why Clark questioned Bruce about the foam trick in the first place.
Hardening foam is definitely standard gear for Batman we've seen him pull it out his belt against powerful meta humans several times before. Notable examples being against Black Canary (preventing her Canary Cry from working) and Heatstroke (preventing her from using her fire based powers to escape). However, depending on the type of foam he uses it may take a few seconds to solidify. http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/...atvscanary3.jpg
While it does take several seconds to take effect, Batman can use this after Wolverine is stunned from gas or electrical gadgets, much like he was when he fought Nick Fury.
Again we have to consider than Batmans gadgets are going to be top of the line and prolly more powerful than Fury's equipment thus possibly evening out with Wolverine's more powerful HF nowadays.
We have seen electricity KO Logan before it just takes a very high amount to do so. So, if Batman can weaken him enough beforehand then pour on a lot of electricity all at once that should be a way to take him down.
That mercernary (known as Tommy Harper who you see at the top center of the image) only had a metal plate in his head and Batman used a magnetic ball to easily and quietly take him out so that's 3 examples of Batman using something magnetic to take out a metal based enemy.
Once Batman discovers that Wolverine has a metal skeleton this could be an instant incapacitation for him as its possible he wouldn't be able to move or defend himself thus giving Batman the win.
__________________ Batman officially defeats Wolverine.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t562753.html
Last edited by Letters on Apr 13th, 2012 at 11:33 AM
Yes of course, IF Wolverine is skilled enough to do so. Can you name me any Top level MA's on par with Batmans, ninja-stealth, array of equipment, and genius level tactical mind that Wolverine has cleaved the arms off of?
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While impressive damage soak, and its true Wolverine did do his job and gave the Avengers time to re- *ahem* assemble, Wolverine wasn't able to defeat Clor without the help of outside interference much like Batman with ProtoAmazo. However, Batman was able to avoid nearly all of ProtoAmazos attacks and was even able to significantly damage ProtoAmazo using standard gear and his unmatched ninja-stealth.
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Batman here distracts a JLA level threat while giving the JLA time to regroup. http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/...tvsanateus1.jpg http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/...tvsanateus2.jpg
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There is a clear skill difference there.
Nobody Wolverine has ever fought is capable of matching Batmans ninja-stealth save Bucky who had to compensate by covering his body in ink. If Batman breaks line of sight for a moment (smoke/gas/explosives), he can ninja stealth away, and appear behind him like Bucky did gaining the upperhand against Logan for several pages. Batman is more skilled, is smarter than Bucky and has better equipment than what was used_ and would end the fight much sooner like Elektra did in EotS.
Batman should be able to out stealth Wolverine considering less stealthy characters have been able to do so despite his super senses like Punisher, Bucky, Yukio (when she used the environent to mask her scent), and Cable.
Batmans stealth is something Wolverine has virually no defense against as Batman can break line of site at pretty much any time he wants with smoke/gas/explosives etc.
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Strength:
Batman puts a huge crack in a reinforced window that is able to withstand Bazooka blasts with repeated punches despite dying/weakening rapidly from poison gas: http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/...batbazooka6.jpg
BATMAN's RECORD: revised (Batman has)
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Karate Kid (Post-Crisis) - 1 draw in which he had to quickly adapt to a unknown style of martial arts that he had no experience in on top of being ambushed
Karate Kid (Pre-Crisis) - 1 inconclusive with the battle in Val's favor but with Bruce blocking his stealth attack, landing 2 powerful attacks that drew blood, proving more than tough enough to withstand all Val's attacks without going down, plus cleverly distracted him so Black Lightning could sneak up from behind to take him out
Sensei- 1 win Batman outsmarted Sensei using the environment
Shiva -1 win 1 stalemate *Shiva started with a sucker shot after Batman just defeated Grundy and wasn't at 100%. Shiva may have been mind controled as Batman speculated on it, still, Batman noticed no difference in her skill
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Cassandra Cain -1 win 1 stalemate *the win was a superior skill showing
David Cain -1 win 1 stalemate
Bane - 2 wins, 1 stalemate, 1 unfair loss
Bronze Tiger -2 stalemates 1 loss
Master Haim -1 win
Ra's Al Ghul - 4 wins two of which involved the use of the environment, 1 loss via lazarus pit power up, 4 stalemates
Nightwing (pre-RIP) - 1 inconclusive in favor of Bruce who was holding back
Wildcat - 1 win, 1 stalemate which Bruce was holding back against
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Enhanced or Super Powered Fighters:
Azreal - 3 wins 1 loss
Slade - 1 win 2 losses
Prometheus - 1 win, 1 loss in which Prometheus was very prepared to fight Batman and defeated him off panel
Manhunter- 1 win *has a healing factor
Feast- 1 win through the use of a clever battle tactic * has a healing factor
Hawkman - 1 win *Batman won while mindcontrolled after being suckershotted
Zeiss - 2 wins, 1 stalemate, 1 inconclusive that favored Zeiss who had the slight upper hand but was prepared to fight Batman beforehand which was their 1st battle
And that's not even counting Batmans record in Marvel vs DC which should be accepted as you have mentioned it first and since they were non fan voted fights thus both companies agree how their characters should be displayed as you have pointed out here:
WOLVERINES RECORD: (Logan has)
Stick- 1 stalemate *Stick was holding back
Captain America - 2 wins*, 1 short inconclusive battle that favored Steve before his leg gave out on him by a nerve_ strike from Wolverine, I dont think this would affect Batman as he has absorbed and countered more deadly nerve strikes before.
Iron Fist - 1 win in a contest of skill in which they were both holding back, 1 loss before his established MA history but still counts since Logan usually fights like a brawler as he did in this battle anyway
Shang Chi - 1 win, 1 loss in a melee contest of skill and use of environment
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Gorgon- 2 losses 1 win
Daredevil - 2 losses 1 stalemate 1 win *1 loss Wolvie was mind controlled and had the help of 20 Hand-Ninjas.
Black Panther - 1 loss* which is counted as a win for BP since Logan's 1 win over DD is counted as legit although their was no clear finish
Shingen - 1 loss due to poisoning beforehand, 1 win
Ogun - 2 wins one via contest of skill, 1 loss via accurate use of a gun in which Logan retreated to heal up
Deadpool and Gambit both have an evenish record, as its debatable as who is ahead currently.
Punisher - 1 win, 1 loss, 2 stalemates (other one I didn't mention was in Marvel Knights Wolverine Punisher #2)
Nick Fury - 1 win due to Fury being KO'd by the feedback of his own electical device. Both characters were holding back but Wolverine was holding back less imo as Fury preffered not to fight and Logan was instigating the fight. And if Wolverine was so skilled he should have been able to dodge Fury's gadgets and go for the quick KO.
Psylock- 1 stalemate * Logan was hindered by outside interference, 1 loss via a contest of skill, 2 losses while Psylock was mind controlled altho Logan was holding back iirc
Mr X - 1 win, 2 losses, 1 inconclusive in favor of X with Logan cleverly conceding since it was the only way to beat X
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Bloodshadow- 1 win 1 loss
X23- 1 win 1 loss * Logan was holding back at first but was already healed when he got serious then lost.
Echo - 1 inconclusive draw which had Echo staying ahead of him through the use of her move copying ability although her strikes were ineffective
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Several telepathic MA's have been able to get the better of Logan in straight up H2H mainly due to their low level telepathy to predict Wolverines moves. Batman has very similar opponents in Batgirl and Shiva as their fighting style defines the move reading ability, and Zeiss who has superfast reflexes and recorded Batmans fighting style, specifically to predict Batmans moves while they fought, as did Prometheus. Batman has flat out performed better against similar opponents.
Echo for example, a move copier who's no where near as skilled as Shiva or Cass yet she was able to pull off an inconclusive draw against Logan. Batman has defeated Zeiss, Prometheus, and Batgirl; all who are able to copy techniques.
We should note that Cassandra and Shiva in particular are considered more skilled than most telepathic MA's like Mr X who depend on their move reading ability to compensate for their lack in skill.
(Broken link edit)
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Batman could duplicate that as he has deduced J'onn was a telepath in their very first meeting.
And let's not forget how formidable MrX was against Wolverines raw mutant speed: http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images...s-mar-17195.jpg http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images...s-mar-17196.jpg http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images...s-mar-17197.jpg
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Batman is at least as capable as Mr X as he has fought and won against more skilled opponents with a move-reading ability (Cassandra and Shiva).
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I have proven sevaral MA's have been able to get the upperhand on Wolverine when he displays his average furious brawler portrayal, several with nervestrikes for the KO. None of those MA's have the extensive array of equipment that Batman has, some of which is tailor made for an easy win - Bat-Magnets for example.
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I have proven lower skilled characters like Nick Fury, Punisher, Gambit, Bucky and Deadpool have all used equipment to get the upperhand on Wolverine in a fight. None of them have the tactical genius level intellect, devious trickery Batman has, nor his ninja stealth, nor the high end MA skill.__
I have also proven viable ways for Batman to win.
A combination of constant equipment use, damaging skillfull attacks like nerve strikes and mortal stab wounds, and specific equipment tailor made to defeat Wolverine- Magnets for the easy win, once Batman realizes Wolverine has a metal skeleton with his master deductive ability that is._ (If Wolverine doesn't boast about it first lol, which would be a HUGE mistake against someone as smart as Batman who would quickly use those strengths against him.)
__________________ Batman officially defeats Wolverine.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t562753.html
Last edited by Badabing on Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:35 PM
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sweet. i'm officially out of this and have given my vote to starscream. it would be nice if he elaborated a little further like any good judge does, but.....whatever. good luck to bada and pr sorting through this mess.
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Apr 13th, 2012 11:28 AM
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