when this question is defined by the participants the thread is pretty much done as it's hindering on the semantics in the other thread cause lord knows there isn't a true competition here.....
Pretty much the only thing I think I need to prove is that KP Kuurth can hang with WBH not be overwhlemed by WBH's strength and power, and that WBH is not drastically more powerful then the other herald level beings including strength. If I can prove that then I think that would be a win for me.
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Last edited by Newjak on Mar 22nd, 2012 at 01:20 PM
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^Actually No. Powerful is such an ambiguous term because it can take into account so many things and is quite frankly very subjective given different powersets. This thread is not about a battle between Full powered Kuurth and WBH in as other abilities and attributes might come into play in that case. Its about the strength gap between them. I will be contending that the strength gap is significant (to give it a number i will argue for instance that WBH is no less than 10x as strong as FP Kuurth based on feats). If you think that proving that he is not drasticallystronger than herald level beings (again not powerful which is relative and ambiguous) will show that the strength gap between he and FP Kuurth isnt significant then thats fine. Just remember this is a comparison of physical strength.
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Last edited by Naija boy on Mar 22nd, 2012 at 02:13 PM
Let me ask you something do you feel that Hulk's strength advantage is such that he can walk over FP Kuurth? If so why would it not be pertinent to the discussion that if WBH can not over power or out destroy FP Kuurth? To me if he can't then that would prove that this great strength advantage is not on the level you wish it to be.
Also if that is the case even though Juggernaut's pushing power comes from his unstoppability it will also be used to help showcase his strength because it is directly linked to his ability to move weight around.
I don't want you saying you can't use that because Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment was at play.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
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You are equivocating terms. I believe the strength advantage between Hulk and full power Kuurth is large and so overpowering Full power Kuurth in a straight test of strength is something well within WBH ability to do. On the other hand, destroying Fullpower Kuurth brings his durability into it which is a distinct attribute not at all related to this debate.
Juggernauts unstoppability enchantment simply means that he is unstoppable in forward motion. In his history this has been shown to be distinct from his actual physical strength, as this unstoppability in forward motion can be redirected and has been used against him before (ala WWH) and has practically different applications than physical strength does. Consequently Im not sure how you could pass off whatever unstoppability feats he does have as physical strength since it is quite clearly different. Unstoppability for instance wouldnt help him in lifting/bracing anything. Similarly we know a character can be definitevely stronger than Juggernaut and unable to stop him as this was explicitly mentioned by Colossonaut when fighting Depowered Kuurth.
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Last edited by Naija boy on Mar 22nd, 2012 at 03:39 PM
Yeah and if you believe WBH to be as strong as you are saying then defeating FP Kuurth should be well within his power shouldn't it?
And Juggernaut's unstoppability can be used to to show how much pushing power he does have. So for instance if you hooked him up to a planet and he could move the planet then we know for sure he can move a planet with his power.
His power was used which means if he can match WBH then we know that WBH is not strong enough to overcome it.
Which means he is not as strong as you are claiming Hulk to be.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
^Wait what? I dont believe Full power Kuurth durability to be anywhere close to the same level as his strength (it is much much higher) is and so whether or not WBH could destroy him is irrelevant. Stop sidetracking the discussion.
Yes it could be used to show his pushing power, but that would once again be entirely distinct from his strength. Pushing power in that case would be a unique and clearly distinguishable attribute of juggernaut and so not related to this discussion on strength. In juggernauts case, he could literally be class 1 and yet his unstoppability enchantment would do all the work if it had to do with him maintaining forward momentum.
My challenge was very clear cut and it was concerning the strength gap between WBHulk and FP Kuurth. While i do believe WBH can definitely outright stop juggernaut similar to War Hulk or what WWH almost did that is pretty irrelevant since that isnt the case i will be proving and is entirely different debate of its own. If you want we can do another one where we argue if WBH can stop juggernaut or what have you.
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Last edited by Naija boy on Mar 22nd, 2012 at 04:12 PM
If you want to back down from it Newjak, you should say it straight, instead of dancing around it and trying to change the discussion into something else.
Naija is even being generous and said that not only is the strength gap significant, but WBH is at least 10 times as strong.
Will you step down from arguing against it or not?
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You want to prove that WBH is so much stronger than WWH, well you would think provinng he can over power Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment would show that. I'll remove the idea of Kuurth's durability, but if you can prove that WBH could overcome FPK's durability then that would also show how much stronger WBH is.
And Phil I'm not backing down. Technically naj first proposed the idea of a bz and then I said go for it, and then nothing happened. I also didn't change the discussion at all I am still saying the same thing I've been saying all along. WBH is not that much stronger than other incarnation of Hulk.
You have no honor in you whatsoever. Your posts are disrespectful. Earlier you challenged delph's judgment and then disappeared. If you aren't going to participate then quit talking smack and being disrespectful. You also complained odg was going to purposely lose a battlezone while you didn't man up and offer to represent Superman at all. Jake even asked you and you didn't respond. You don't have any guts. Just don't post if you're just going to dive into every thread in order to be condescending to someone. In short grow up.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Mar 22nd, 2012 at 05:43 PM
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
I dont need to approach the debate in terms of whether WBH can overpower juggernauts unstoppability enchantment or not. Because quite frankly i dont view Juggs unstoppability enchantment as some all be end all force in the first place. Secondly there would be nothing to gain from framing the debate in such a manner as WBH overcoming Kuurths durability and overcoming juggernauts enchantments are not direct comparisons to Kuurths strength and take away from you having to actually explicitly muster a positive case for Kuurths strength based of feats.
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But they were enough to contend with previous versions of the Hulk, so if WBH is so much stronger than what Juggernaut's enchantments can muster then it shouldn't be the big of a deal to debate him overpowering them right.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
You have it backwards. For me to debate that Hulk could overpower the enchantments, I would have to first assume or establish that WBH is alot stronger than previous versions of the Hulk which will be proved within this debate. I cant prove that he would overpower them and then try to prove that he is alot stronger because in proving the former I am implicitly going to need to prove the latter anyways.
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So either way you are going to try and prove it so what's the big deal. Do you not think Hulk could stop or over power FPK?
I mean if all you want to debate is that WBH far stronger than people like Thor/Juggernaut/Savage/Superman than why do we not just debate that. I don't need to represent a particular character to show that argument as false.
Gender: Male Location: Ontario
but still reppin naija
This is getting ridiculous and ends NOW. I do thnk WBH could overpower Juggs unstoppability enchantment but thats NOT what im trying to prove here. Im simply going to prove that he is significantly stronger than Full power Kuurth. Whether that significant gap is large enough to overcome his enchantment is another discussion and another debate.
Im proving that WBH is significantly stronger than FP Kuurth. What you are doing is fairly transparent as it is an attempt to shy away from providing an actual psotive case for FP Kuurths strength. The reason you are representing FP Kuurth is because that is the character I initially asserted WBH was much stronger than and that is the character the challenge was issued under. All these attempts at sidetracking the discussion and altering the substance of the debate are unbecoming. Im not debating WBH versus a range of characters i.e Thor/Superman/Savage etc. Im debating WBH vs Full power Kuurth strength wise. You accepted this and the terms of the debate were explicitly clear. If you dont like it anymore you may humbly withdraw. Period
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I like how you said this stops NOW. Like you're demanding it from me.
I'm trying to prove WBH is not as strong as your claiming. You're goal is to prove it. As it stands I don't need to represent one particular character to do that.
And if I could use the full range of FPK's feats including his forward momentum feats and other abilities I would be all over that. As it stands I'm not about to use a character we both know doesn't have a huge amount of lifting feats and his best power feats involve him moving forward, which you would try to take away due to his unstoppability, to try and prove who is stronger.
It's asinine situation you're trying to put me in, and I'm not gonna let it happen. You can claim you know my intentions all you want I don't care.
So let's do it you prove WBH is so far above his piers from before. That's what you really want to prove anyways right? It shouldn't matter what feats from people I bring in. If WBH is so much stronger as you claim you should also be able to argue that those same feats are so far below him regardless of who they are from.
And I'm not gonna withdraw as it stands no terms were actually agreed upon that was the purpose of this thread after all to hammer out the details. If you want to back out be my guest.
I'm not going to, and you can bark half assed orders all you want that won't change anything.
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Last edited by Newjak on Mar 22nd, 2012 at 07:01 PM
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