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"If I wanted America To Fail"
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
There's a point where he says "I wouldn't take [oil] by force" and implies that not doing so means betraying your country and "making it fail".



Correction.

"I'd start with energy... I'd cut off Americans supply of cheap abundant engery, I couldnt take it by force so I'd make americans feel guilty about using the engery that heats their homes, fuels their cars, runs their business and powers their economy. I'd make cheap energy expensive so that expensive energy would seem cheap. I would empower unelected beurocrats to all but outlaw americans most abundant sources of engery. After banning its use in american id make it illegal for american companies to ship it overseas.


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:09 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is the only reason I don't believe in man made global warming. It's not because we humans are somehow not capable of screwing everything up, we are, but we don't know what we are talking about.

So you don't believe in science at all?


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:09 PM
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Omega Vision
Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
Correction.

"I'd start with energy... I'd cut off Americans supply of cheap abundant engery, I couldnt take it by force so I'd make americans feel guilty about using the engery that heats their homes, fuels their cars, runs their business and powers their economy. I'd make cheap energy expensive so that expensive energy would seem cheap. I would empower unelected beurocrats to all but outlaw americans most abundant sources of engery. After banning its use in american id make it illegal for american companies to ship it overseas.

I misheard him there. My mistake.

Still, he doesn't explain how we're supposed to become energy self-sufficient.

Are we supposed to make every car run on coal?


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:12 PM
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Mairuzu
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He's referring to high energy costs which is slowing down the economy as it always does. You realize that?



Don't be so paranoid. I was questioning you out of curiosity, not to shoot your opinion down. Your orignal post in here had me wondering what was so wrong about the video


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Last edited by Mairuzu on Apr 26th, 2012 at 08:16 PM

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:13 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
So you don't believe in science at all?


I don't believe in your religion of science.

In your religion of science, 80% of scientists agreeing on something makes it true, but in real science that doesn't matter.


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:15 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in your religion of science.

In your religion of science, 80% of scientists agreeing on something makes it true, but in real science that doesn't matter.


Lots of people believing something doesn't make it not true any more than it makes it true. Meanwhile scientists have piles of work they have done researching the subject.

Also no one has mention the relevance of consensus among scientists, only their evidence, which makes your comment a strawman.


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A juvenal prank.

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:21 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
He's referring to high energy costs which is slowing down the economy as it always does. You realize that?



Don't be so paranoid. I was questioning you out of curiosity, not to shoot your opinion down. Your orignal post in here had me wondering what was so wrong about the video

Right, what's his solution?

And your passive-aggressiveness is fun as always.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in your religion of science.

In your religion of science, 80% of scientists agreeing on something makes it true, but in real science that doesn't matter.

By calling science a religion you hope to elevate religion to a science. Very sneaky.

You need to read "Division of Cognitive Labor" by Philip Kitcher. It argues that irrationality of individual scientists contributes to a rational scientific community.

Edit: Defending the principles of science makes me feel all icky. sad


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Last edited by Omega Vision on Apr 26th, 2012 at 08:25 PM

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:22 PM
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Right, what's his solution?

And your passive-aggressiveness is fun as always.




You realize the title of the video is called "If I wanted America to fail" and simply that.


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:25 PM
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Shakyamunison
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Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
..By calling science a religion you hope to elevate religion to a science. Very sneaky...


No! I'm pointing out that your FAITH is showing.


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I play guitar, sing & write songs. Listen to my music HERE, HERE, & HERE

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:25 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No! I'm pointing out that your FAITH is showing.

Where? Point to it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
You realize the title of the video is called "If I wanted America to fail" and simply that.

Yes, and? My claim was that he isn't making any factual assertions, thanks for agreeing with me.


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:26 PM
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Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Gender: Male
Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Where? Point to it.


So, you don't believe in Man-Made Global Worming? Sorry, I had you confused.


__________________
I play guitar, sing & write songs. Listen to my music HERE, HERE, & HERE

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:28 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you don't believe in Man-Made Global Worming? Sorry, I had you confused.

Belief and faith are different things.

An entire branch of philosophy studies belief and qualifies it. Faith is just faith.

Faith is belief in the absence of justification, IMO.

If I believe in man-caused global warming when there's significant scientific evidence supporting it then it's not the same as believing that God created the world in six days because it's written in an old book that ripped off the Epic of Gilgamesh.


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:32 PM
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Mairuzu
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Location: Away from the DRONESSS

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Where? Point to it.


Yes, and? My claim was that he isn't making any factual assertions, thanks for agreeing with me.



Agreeing with you on what? stick out tongue


His last point. "If I wanted America to fail I suppose I wouldn't change a thing."

The video is made to make people think, at least that is my opinion on its purpose. This one man making a youtube video isn't going to bring the solutions on every one of these problems


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:32 PM
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Lord Lucien
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Or any of them.


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:33 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
Agreeing with you on what? stick out tongue


His last point. "If I wanted America to fail I suppose I wouldn't change a thing."

The video is made to make people think, at least that is my opinion on its purpose. This one man making a youtube video isn't going to bring the solutions on every one of these problems

It's not supposed to make people think, it's supposed to galvanize popular support for this person's views.

It's an emotional message.


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:34 PM
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Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Gender: Male
Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Belief and faith are different things.

An entire branch of philosophy studies belief and qualifies it. Faith is just faith.

Faith is belief in the absence of justification, IMO.

If I believe in man-caused global warming when there's significant scientific evidence supporting it then it's not the same as believing that God created the world in six days because it's written in an old book that ripped off the Epic of Gilgamesh.


So, you can't have faith unless you are a Christian? You do know that I am not a Christian.

Why don't you believe in global cooling? Oh! that's right, scientists were wrong about that, but there is No Way they could ever be wrong anything now.


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I play guitar, sing & write songs. Listen to my music HERE, HERE, & HERE

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:36 PM
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Mairuzu
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's not supposed to make people think, it's supposed to galvanize popular support for this person's views.

It's an emotional message.


How do you think that support would be shown? What will be the outcome of this shown by supporters?


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:39 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you can't have faith unless you are a Christian? You do know that I am not a Christian.

Why don't you believe in global cooling? Oh! that's right, scientists were wrong about that, but there is No Way they could ever be wrong anything now.

No, I was using the Bible as an example to apply to all religions that make untestable claims.

There's a difference between the rational response of not believing anything any scientist says without due cause and what you're doing, which is categorically rejecting all science because some of the time they make mistakes.

If we all shared your view then we wouldn't be having this conversation because the computer would have never been invented because of crippling angst and self-doubt in what would have been the scientific community.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mairuzu
How do you think that support would be shown? What will be the outcome of this shown by supporters?

Well it starts with clicking "like" on Youtube.


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:40 PM
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Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

Gender: Male
Location: Southern Oregon, Looking at you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
...There's a difference between the rational response of not believing anything any scientist says without due cause and what you're doing, which is categorically rejecting all science because some of the time they make mistakes.


That's fine, but I don't care about that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
If we all shared your view then we wouldn't be having this conversation because the computer would have never been invented because of crippling angst and self-doubt in what would have been the scientific community...



No! I am saying they can and have made mistakes. In other words, a poll of scientists is more religion like then science.


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Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:48 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That's fine, but I don't care about that.




No! I am saying they can and have made mistakes. In other words, a poll of scientists is more religion like then science.

Science isn't a poll though. You're strawmanning.

I'm not saying I believe in Global Warming because more scientists believe in it than not, rather that the evidence and arguments on their side are stronger.

Phlogiston was abandoned in favor of Lavoisier's new chemistry not because suddenly 51% of all scientists believed in it over phlogiston, but because the arguments and evidence for NC became more powerful.


__________________

"End when I find myn Hertland, efter Irfet end Woo,
In Dale af Paper, worin Ink Nymphen dans’n,
I’ll endly have somthing stour ta gib ta myn Fremdin.
O Vers’ af de Musen, dwan’t ferlet me noo!"

Old Post Apr 26th, 2012 08:51 PM
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