Considering how Starkiller was tanking the lightning, anything would have been better.
The passage comes from Starkiller's perspective, he has no basis to conclude Sidious was desperate especially when all the evidence says he was pulling his punches. Additionally, that Sidious was in pain from his lightning doesn't mean anything other than that... the lightning hurt. Which no one, to my knowledge, disputed.
What? Considering that lightning is the most lethal power that kills or incapacitates within seconds and no one else in EU displayed this level of tanking lightning, Marek showed amazing feat. Jaina Solo in FotJ wasn't unable to resist lighning of a random Sith and was saved by Bane. Clearly lighning is the power that only very exceptional individuals could counter without lightsaber and such individuals can be counted on fingers. The only other example I know to show such tanking was only the Gary Stue himself - Luke.
Wrong. The passage comes from author's perspective. The book is written in third person.
"Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight."
"Energy surged through him.
"He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest." "No!" the apprentice cried
If you want example of book from character perspective look no farther, than I, Jedi with Corran Horn as narrator.
They both ended up tanking lightning but the one that cannot tolerate pain is likely to give up first. Also, pain breaks control over the Force. If character gets overwhelmed with pain, he can't focus on anything else, including Force.
In fact lightning can prevent its victims from using any Force. In LotF bounty hunters utilized electric nets. Jaina got caught in one and was unable to get freed because electric impulses distracted her preventing using the Force.
So pain tolerance does matter and Marek showed himself better at it.
If the Emperor had been trying to kill Marek, it stands to reason that he would have done everything in his considerable power to do it. Once Marek began to resist the lightning and move inexorably towards him, why not ragdoll him with telekinesis? Or pick up some detritus and hit him with it? Or do something to Marek like he does in the dark side ending?
The Force Unleashed, like most other Star Wars novels, is written in third person limited/subjective viewpoint wherein the events of the story are given through one or more viewpoint characters and not an omniscient narrator.
I, Jedi is written in first person viewpoint.
WTF are you talking about? Who said pain tolerance doesn't matter? Who said Sidious had a higher pain threshold than Marek? Why can't you stick to things that are actually written in text on your monitor? Marek felt that the only thing that could stop Sidious was by opening himself up to the Force and causing an explosion of significant magnitude rather than continuing the fight and as Neph pointed out, it did little more than singe the Emperor's robes.
My advice is to limit your interaction with LeGenD, because right now it seems as though you're trying very hard to impersonate him.
Fixed. All this quotes play in my favor. TK is much more suitable to subdue/cripple/render unconscious someone as it is not as lethal. Also, wasn't Sidious trying to kill Luke with lightning?
In any case this quote proves my point:
"The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations." - They were both desperate.
Also, Sidious' tipping head and howling surprisingly reminds of his struggle with Yoda. And his intention was nothing else but kill him. Why that time he didn't try anything else, when Yoda started closing in?
Nice try. The book is written in third person like the most other Star Wars novels. Author is the only narrator through out the story. And if he needs to show character's thinking, he adds: he thought, he remembered, he saw, e.g.
Based on what is in the book Marek experienced pain longer and didn't start tipping his head and howling, on that I concluded that he displayed better pain threshold. And that makes him more likely to win. If you don't agree, I am fine with it. We will never know possible outcome, if Marek didn't decide to sacrifice himself anyway.
I went deeper into pain subject merely because you dismissed that saying:
It does have meaning, it means that he was suffering as well and that it could kill him.
Why can't you stick to things that are actually written in the book and stop making stuff up?
He created explosion not because it was the only way to stop Palpatine. He created it to save Rebels.
"A squadron of stormtroopers ran into the room, led by a limping Darth Vader. They raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp.
"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses to strike one last time at the Imperials. "
If not threat to his friends, he wouldn't need to drop his defenses in order to save his friends.
Ok. His assumption that he held back in that struggle must be higher then what is written in the book. After feeling pain Palpatine still continued holding back, confident that he will inevitably subdue Marek. And the quote that they both were desperate is a mere Marek's imagination. Simple. I concede. Marek was no match for Palpatine. The fact that Marek Force handled Vader, who was 80% power of Palpatine according to Lucas, also, means nothing. It's all circumstances, he just got lucky. He is still no match for Emperors power because it is said so in an encyclopedia.
As I already explained, the novel is written in third person subjective/limited viewpoint. It is Marek's belief that Sidious is desperate, a belief that is not corroborated by the cutscenes or graphic novel. As Nephthys pointed out, Sidious ragdolls Marek with contemptuous ease in the dark side ending. He taunted Marek during their duel, goaded him into striking him down in anger, attacked Kota instead, and when Marek lay dead on the observation tower floor, he expressed disappointment. Sidious literally takes an explosion that, according to the text, "made [Marek's] efforts with the dark side look like those of a child", to the face and suffers only singed robes. Between all that and the encyclopedia, it's pretty clear that Marek is not the Emperor's equal.
The only problem is that you can't prove that all of that is from point of Marek's view. Marek is the main character and that's why he described more precisely but it doesn't prove that it's all his point of view. It is no Harry potter.
You can't prove that the quote about desperation is from Marek's point of view.
"The lightsabers flashed again-and it was the apprentice who found the chink in the armor that both of them had been waiting for. " - Is it, also Marek's opinion? I precept it as plain author narration as it is completely neutral as quote with desperation.
Darkside ending is still non-canon. Also, in darkside ending he, also, used lightning, which pushed Marek away and subdued him. Why it didn't happen in canon material? Because in canon material Marek is shown able to resist it and even approach and grab Palpatine making him suffering as well. You simply can't prove that Sidious was holding back with his lightning. The straggle in all its portrayal is surprisingly similar to struggle with Yoda, where Sidious did not hold back an inch. Don't see any reason, why character that showed the biggest TK feats in the mythos and Force handled Vader (who happened to be nearly as powerful as Sidious) wouldn't be able to resist lightning as good as Yoda.
Simple thing is that, if Palpatine could subdue Marek like in darkside ending, he would. He didn't = he couldn't.
With same success you can argue that Palpatine held back against Luke in final duel because before that he didn't want to kill him and wanted to keep him as apprentice.
It still stands that Marek stopped fighting Palpatine to save Rebels, not because there was no other way to defeat Palpatine. If not rebels, there would be no reason for him "dropping his defenses." and sacrifice himself.
Also, Palpatine's main disappointment was that Marek inspired rebellion, instead of destroying it.
At the end of the day I supported my opinion with many quotes and analysis of the material. The fact that Marek Force handled Vader, who is stated by Lucas to be 80% of Palpatine, voids or at least mitigates encyclopedia claim.
While, all you provided is assumption that all those feats are portrayed from Marek's perspective, and, therefore, you assumed that he was holding back. And that Sidious still held back even, when Marek started approaching and still held back even after he started experiencing pain. And of course encyclopedia statement.
Provide at least one solid prove of your assumptions, instead of discarding all the quotes provided by book - the main resource of information.
Last edited by Arhael on Jul 3rd, 2012 at 05:35 AM