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As few as 5,000 blue whales left in the world.
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Insomniatric
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That's a lot compared to the amount of tigers left in the world (a little over 100, I think).


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 07:25 PM
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Archaeopteryx
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Omega Vision
If whales were to disappear it would be a tragedy, but life would go on and eventually another kind of animal would take their niche.

I'm not saying "fvck the whales", I'm just wondering how essential they are to the ecosystem...maybe keeping krill from overpopulating?


And how essential are humans to the eco system?


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 07:53 PM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
And how essential are humans to the eco system?


we're the apex predator on like 70% of the planet's land...

EDIT: where we aren't, it is due to humans not living there


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 07:56 PM
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Tzeentch
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
And how essential are humans to the eco system?
When the giant asteroid is days away from smashing Earth into space dust, I highly doubt the whales are going to be the ones stepping up to the plate to save the planet.

Bruce Willis alone is worth the human population's weight in whale blubber.


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 08:43 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
And how essential are humans to the eco system?

The only reason ecology is of any importance (i.e., why we'd care about whales) is the effects that ecological changes have on human life.

Remove humans and it's a moot point. So humans are absolutely, supremely essential to the ecosystem.


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 08:54 PM
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Archaeopteryx
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Oliver North
we're the apex predator on like 70% of the planet's land...

EDIT: where we aren't, it is due to humans not living there


Yes we are, but that doesn't mean we're essential to the eco system. The opposite in fact is true...if humans were to disappear from the earth the eco system would be much healthier.


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 09:14 PM
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tsilamini
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
Yes we are, but that doesn't mean we're essential to the eco system. The opposite in fact is true...if humans were to disappear from the earth the eco system would be much healthier.


a different ecosystem would be different in ways you call healthier, sure

and yes, apex predators are essential to their ecosystems


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 09:20 PM
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Archaeopteryx
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Oliver North
a different ecosystem would be different in ways you call healthier, sure

and yes, apex predators are essential to their ecosystems


Apex predators existed for hundreds of millions of years before we were here, though unlike us were not harmful to the biosphere. We do far more damage to the eco system than good.


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 09:23 PM
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tsilamini
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that is an entirely unrelated point though


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 09:53 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
if humans were to disappear from the earth the eco system would be much healthier.


No, just different. Ecosystem "health" really just means something we consider healthy or beneficial.

Take cities for example. They are a whole new ecosystem, one that is almost totally dependent on human action. If you remove people from cities the existing ecosystem there will collapse and be replaced with a new one. Neither is "healthier".


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 09:59 PM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No, just different. Ecosystem "health" really just means something we consider healthy or beneficial.

Take cities for example. They are a whole new ecosystem, one that is almost totally dependent on human action. If you remove people from cities the existing ecosystem there will collapse and be replaced with a new one. Neither is "healthier".

The reason why I've never bought into the notion of nature having a "balance".


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 10:25 PM
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Ascendancy
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Neither is "healthier" in and of itself, but and other top predators don't sustain themselves in ways that destroy the environment they are in without balance. That said, I don't know that humanity suddenly disappearing and leaving untreated toxic waste, spent and unspent nuclear fuel, and whatever other various processed and unprocessed chemicals lying around would be a good thing.

Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 10:45 PM
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Symmetric Chaos
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Neither is "healthier" in and of itself, but and other top predators don't sustain themselves in ways that destroy the environment they are in without balance.


You can't destroy "the environment" only whatever environment there currently is.

Health is really a human-centric thing. Cyanobacter killing off so many other life forms it defined an epoch was natural. An asteroid wiping out the dinosaurs was natural.

In both cases the environment wasn't destroyed. It just changed.

Humans are no different except that, unlike cyanobacter and large pieces of rock, we are consciously self interested. If the current environment changes too much we all die. That's bad because we die not because things have changed, change is a constant.


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Old Post Jul 22nd, 2012 11:03 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Neither is "healthier" in and of itself, but and other top predators don't sustain themselves in ways that destroy the environment they are in without balance. That said, I don't know that humanity suddenly disappearing and leaving untreated toxic waste, spent and unspent nuclear fuel, and whatever other various processed and unprocessed chemicals lying around would be a good thing.


Actually they can, just look what the grey squirrels did to red squirrel populations.


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Old Post Jul 23rd, 2012 09:43 AM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ascendancy
That said, I don't know that humanity suddenly disappearing and leaving untreated toxic waste, spent and unspent nuclear fuel, and whatever other various processed and unprocessed chemicals lying around would be a good thing.


But that's the thing, untreated toxic waste, pent and unspent nuclear fuel and whatever other various processed and unprocessed chemicals are only bad in relation to humans.

We don't like those things cause they **** us up.


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Old Post Jul 23rd, 2012 04:32 PM
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Insomniatric
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Oliver North
we're the apex predator on like 70% of the planet's land...

EDIT: where we aren't, it is due to humans not living there


Actually, there's a small village somewhere in Asia where tigers prey on people (it's so bad that people wear masks on the back of their heads to deter the tigers). The tigers will even attack their canoes when they're in the middle of a river.

My second post in this thread about tigers, weird, didn't even intend for that to happen.


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Old Post Jul 23rd, 2012 09:34 PM
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Archaeopteryx
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Insomniatric
Actually, there's a small village somewhere in Asia where tigers prey on people (it's so bad that people wear masks on the back of their heads to deter the tigers). The tigers will even attack their canoes when they're in the middle of a river.

My second post in this thread about tigers, weird, didn't even intend for that to happen.


Big cats (and bears) kill people all over the world. Having said that we kill a lot more of them than the other way around.


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Old Post Jul 23rd, 2012 09:37 PM
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Insomniatric
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
Big cats (and bears) kill people all over the world. Having said that we kill a lot more of them than the other way around.


I know that, we've driven tigers to the brink of extinction. I was just talking about this one particular village where the tigers are higher on the food chain than people.


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Old Post Jul 24th, 2012 12:20 AM
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Omega Vision
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Insomniatric
I know that, we've driven tigers to the brink of extinction. I was just talking about this one particular village where the tigers are higher on the food chain than people.

I think in those cases tigers are cordoned into such tight spaces that they have a caged animal mentality and will be unnaturally aggressive toward humans.


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“Where the longleaf pines are whispering
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Where the faint murmurs now dwindling
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-A Grave Epitaph in Santa Rosa County, Florida; I wish I could remember the man's name.

Old Post Jul 24th, 2012 02:44 AM
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Darth Jello
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Whale shit reduces carbon levels greatly by stimulating growth of phytoplankton.


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Old Post Jul 24th, 2012 03:18 AM
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