This is a battlezone between abhilegend and Existere for the KMC Mid herald championship.
Rules:
1. No posting limit (free form posting, instead).
2. No time manipulation.
3. No insta-kill tactics such as teleporting into solid objects. Even if an attack isn’t instantaneous, any attack that could, as a matter of its nature, not be defended against is considered this.
3. Characters will not have knowledge of who they are fighting pre-fight. In battle, they will only be able to know things if the two characters already knew each other.
4. Non-offensive matter manipulation is allowed.
5. No duplication.
6. No power copying in any way.
7. Only experience carries from previous fights, and only information you could have reasonably discovered in the fight is learned.
8. No immortal characters. Characters should be able to be defeated by reasonably accessible means. Healing factors strong enough to blur the line with this are also banned.
9. While battlefields will change, it is assumed that nobody can leave the whole of the battlefield by any means. This also means no BFR or self-BFR. If you fly too far, you hit an impenetrable wall.
10. No reality warping.
11. Rules may be changed if certain strategies become an obvious problem.
12. Matches last 14 days.
13. ( Prep) You will receive a 5 minute briefing about your opponent. You cannot gather gear that would not be considered standard gear.
Judges :
1. Digi
2. Galan
3. Gecko4lif
4. Blair
5. Jake
Battlefield : The Savage Lands (please log in to view the image)
abhilegend will represent Wonder Woman ( standard gear)
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vs.
Existere that will rep God like Cable
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Good luck to you both gentlemen. Win or lose you're making KMC history.
Ok boys and girls, let's get this show on the road.
Cable vs Wonder Woman
Smurph Post 1
Wooo, sorry for keeping people waiting. I realized my scans were blurrier than I'd like - readable, but not nice on my eyes, not to mention Abhi, judges or spectators.
Anyways, got my hands on a new set (thanks Id!) so I'm good to go now.
I'm gonna start off this match by making a clear a couple of details that are immediately important in determining this match.
Firstly:
Shields
In a PM between Don and myself, I was trying to clear up a number of things, including the bare minimum that could be accomplished in prep.
He made it very clear that shields could be raised prior to the start of the match.
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Wonder Woman is based heavily around close quarters combat, and there's really no reason Cable should ever allow this match to be taken to close quarters.
Second:
Reaction Speeds
The first two of my points have a lot to do with Wonder Woman's speed - I know if I were arguing for Diana, I'd bank a lot of my case on the perception that she is faster and go for the blitz.
First I established that Cable will be constantly shielded.
Here he intercepts a blitz from Surfer that had to come from at least orbit or farther, given that Cable could account for every presence on Earth at the time and would have picked up on Surfer's massive energies had he been hanging out. It fits with the dialogue, that talks about 'Richards making contact with the alien'.
Anyways, that's all he'd really need to do if Diana were to somehow get up close - he intercepts Surfer's attack, giving him time to make this easily a distance game again.
Still, while we're at it, let's show the rest of the scene:
I know the dialogue can be a little hard to read in that last scan, so I zoomed up on the part that mattered. Guys in the background are like 'How is the casualty count at zero from this orbital blitz!?', and the response is:
Did you all get that? As Cable explains, they're sundering things at the atomic level and IMMEDIATELY putting them back together again.
WOW!
They do this as their fight takes them from Providence, across the pacific, eventually ending up in Sydney, Australia.
Anyways, clearly, if Cable has the reactions to intercept an orbital blitz from Surfer and the thinking speed to accomplish atomic re-structuring on a massive scale, it should be a very simple matter for him to simply telekinetically punch Diana in her fat amazonian face, should she bring the fight close. Or, hell, should she not break through the shields - unlike his opponent, Cable can punch from across the globe.
Which brings me to point three...
Cable SMASH!
What do you think the durability of Diana's neck is compared to, say, Surfer's board?
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It can be noted that, during all of this, Cable was floating Providence, his massive country/island with his telekinesis:
Of course, Cable has all his power at his disposal here, so once he cracks Diana's neck like Surfer's board, he can break all her ribs with enough force to keep an island aloft in the air.
Brute force isn't Cable's only path to victory however, bringing us to the final point of this post:
Telepathy!
The other half of Cable's powerset! How could I forget. So foolish.
It's often spouted that Wonder Woman is 'immune to telepathy', but I don't know that that's true. She often enough seems to communicate with the team via J'onn. It could be that she's immune to being controlled, but that isn't super relevant here - an offensive mental shut down would work just fine.
During the fight with Surfer, Cable was trying to reason with the alien- he needed to stop fighting Surfer so he could save the world. All while restructuring everything atomically, keeping providence aloft, and fighting Surfer with TK.
In this fight, we aren't plagued by ulterior goals and greater purposes.
No talking necessary. Telepathy can be used purely offensively, which means either as a hammer, or as a scalpel. I know Diana's lasso dispels most illusions (goddess of truth shtick, etc), but a girl and her toys are easily parted.
Cable gets a five minute breakdown on everything Wonder Woman can do and what she brings to the table. As soon as he knows what her lasso can do, it becomes a simple matter to lift it from her body and toss it off the battlefield, or, hell, use it himself.
After that point, illusions are fair game, and what Wonder Woman sees becomes his tool for amusement.
Fernus destroyed the league, the first time largely due to his invisibility.
Auto shields mean nothing unless you show us its feats of taking hits on the level of wonder woman can dish out. Diana on the other hand can break green lantern shields
How durable are green lantern shields and constructs? Two rookie gls(got their rings on the same day) survive a star going nova and a black hole by just their auto shields.
Here diana pushes through ares' blast and pounds on him. Cable can try to push her back any time he wants, her strength, speed and aegis can push through any attack he can muster.
For whatever its worth for him, unless it has some other feats than merely blocking bullets, its not much help for him.
False, surfer was just bullrushing cable at such a speed that beast and domino could point at him while he was already on providence. Cable just flew at him and met his bullrush head on, it doesn't denotes his reaction time. While we're at it, why don't we see how well cable does against a true blitz
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By someone whose fastest speed while in his suit is 140 MPH.
Wonder woman's speed is something else entirely. Just for reminder, Jesse quick is one of the fastest beings on the planet who looks faster than even energy superman here
Now tell me that cable can comprehend diana's speed with a straight face.
Like I said, he is welcome to try.
LOL, it was the voice of one of fury's assistant speculating not cable explaining anything to surfer. Speculation from a third character and a shared feat makes it invalid for cable. Now what is cable's limit with TK at full power before he gets exhausted?
Apparently sucking a virus from someone's body
In an unspecified amount of time and it was mostly surfer dragging cable around the southern pacific ocean, diana fought superman from earth to sun, back to earth and god knows where else in 1 minute 54 second. Go ahead and match their speed.
Correction, cable had enough speed to meet the bullrush of surfer head on who was so fast that beast and domino could point out who was coming clearly. Like I said, speculation from a third character and shared feat make it invalid for cable. Oh and she can't block it with her impenetrable aegis bracers because? You know that telekinetic attack can be blocked by force-fields which is what aegis does when diana crosses her arms, right? She could certainly break through his shields and unlike cable can cross over the globe really easily.
How fast is her reaction time? Here pieces of shattered god attack her from coming from every direction of space, meaning way FTL
So, superman punched her out of the gravity well of sun and crashing on earth at FTL speeds and what did she got? A bloody nose!
Yeah, right. Because diana has never taken hits from people who have better feats of power than keeping an island aloft, right? While he had his powers divided, its a pure speculation how much power he would gain from taking that power back, it might be a huge gain or it might be a small gain in power at the level cable was playing. There isn't much proof to either way, but cable ain't breaking diana's ribs with "power to lift islands".
It is next to useless against diana.
Telepathy is next to useless against diana. Here she frees another guy from Dr. Psycho's mental control by her lasso
If diana commands it to not leave her hands which she would do when she would know that cable is a telekinetic, cable can't separate it from her hands.
No, he can't as the lasso would be commanded to not leave her hands.
Illusions are useless for someone who sees through eyes of a god. Dr. psycho has tried to use illusions on her after her eyes are restored and failed miserably. Here she directly sees through her illusions
Not when she would order it to not leave her hands. Fernus beat them off panel with a surprise and then restrained her. Now when she knows what cable can do, he wouldn't have a chance doing it.
Half of his powerset is useless against her and the other half is in-sufficient in power to win this match. Diana on the other hand can win this by many options. Wanna know what happened when GOD LIKE cable got hit by normal lightning a helicopter blowing in his face? It knocked his ass out
Ok guys, sorry that this took so long. I'm not meaning to rush in and post at the last minute - Abhi, feel free to take your time in responding to this. If you agree, we could seek an extension. Two posts each feels pretty measly for the first championship battle, eh?
Anyways, such is life.
Smurph Post 2
Ok, I'm going to break apart the above quote war into what I see as the key points of the match so far:
1. Defense
a) Shields
b) Reaction Speeds
2. Telekinesis
3. Telepathy
a. The Lasso
b. Other resistance
Defensively and offensively, those are what Cable brings to the match and thus gonna be my focus in order to drive home why he's the superior combatant in this battlezone.
Defense
Shields
Here I'm going to cover how Abhi has attempted to simply wave away Cable's defense and why, all in all, the argument he offers is pretty silly.
He argues that Cable would need to pit his shields against a Wonder Woman level brute to show that he has the telekinetic might to hold off a Wonder Woman level brute.
Fact of the matter is, a fully powered Cable is capable of constantly and effortlessly exerting the force required to keep Providence aloft. Literally, the man did this while he was sleeping. He also did this while he exerted the force required to smack Surfer away and break his board.
He also contained the energy from 240 closely grouped missiles and redirected it into the atmosphere. That energy has to have a lot of punch, and it's not unreasonable to think if he can contain all that, he can contain himself, even momentarily, from Diana's fists.
And with that scan, one of Abhi's own, this point already becomes useless.
See, the time that Diana takes to bust through a construct or shield is literally all that Cable will need. She can follow through with her punch, and his brain can already be in the middle of TK-striking her face with the same force it took to break Surfer's board- a feat that he accomplished easily, while multi-tasking in a gazillion other ways simultaneously.
Further: Diana having the capacity to break a shield or not isn't super relevant, because literally as soon as her fist passed through it, it would be repaired.
It's Cable talking about how he's going to piece together again the entire fleet at an atomic level as soon as they fly through it. Abhi would like to dismiss this due to it being 'speculation and a shared feat', but we can see Cable there directly talking about how he's going to perform that feat. Surfer, by the way, says nothing. The only speculation happening in those scans is that Surfer is in any way aiding the process. We know that Cable is doing this (which makes the claim that removing a virus from a person's body had taxed Cable look pretty silly in retrospect).
Cable, incidentally, is also constantly fighting back the techno-organic virus from overtaking his body in every single appearance he has in comics.
Here, Cable's telekinesis was disabled at the beginning of the issue.
Before the end of that single issue, the techno-organic virus in his body has rendered him utterly immobile, and no longer really even humanoid.
In Cable's entire run as a character, he is constantly performing minute, precise and extremely fast manipulation to keep the TO from spreading past his arm.
Again, he shows us that he's capable of performing this manipulation in a high speed battle across the earth to vast structures, repairing massive damage...
And you think that Wonder Woman is going to do any sort of real damage to a shield? To a featureless wall of energy?
Cable will literally repair it as her fingers strike its surface.
Reaction Speeds
The natural reaction to this, and the only avenue Abhi has left, is to argue that Wonder Woman's speed will make a difference here.
Well, I've already shown you that Cable can intercept an attacker at high speeds (dismissed because of dialogue, according to Abhi- because dialogue is never unrealistic in comics, amirite?).
Further, however, I've shown you that Cable can perform vast atomic manipulation and repairs at high speeds while holding a conversation, levitating an island, fighting Surfer and performing vast telepathic feats (to be touched on soon!).
If that's not enough, there's also Cable redirecting a blast of energy as it is inches away from its target.
(In that annual, Sinister had temporarily restored Cable's powers and removed the TO virus from his body. The upgrade lasted less than an issue, but Cable was similarly impressive in it).
Finally, we know that Cable can do all this simultaneously while fighting Diana, just as he did more while fighting Surfer. So he can repair his shields, fend her off momentarily, and continue to smack her in the face with enough force to break Surfer's board.
Oh and before I move on, I guess I should respond to the red herring about Cable getting 'blitzed'
Nice of you to edit out the rest of the scene. Let's view what happens in context, shall we?
So, with a little reading comprehension, we realize Cable actually goaded the speed-of-light attacker into attacking, as a part of his plan, remained completely unharmed and actually made the man look like a fool. All according to plan.
Meanwhile, he showed that he's thinking fast enough to time things according to the fraction of a second and can shrug off a speedblitz.
I'd also say that that feat shown on panel (which I'm guessing you must have read and subsequently avoided showing) is a hell of a lot faster than 140 MPH.
If you're going to misrepresent a feat, you should pull it from something that's not a couple issues behind the one I've been using this entire debate.
Telekinesis
There's not too much to cover here.
Abhi likes to downplay Surfer's board's durability, pointing out that Terrax and Morg have done similar.
Well, Terrax has busted a planet with his axe.
And a strike from Morg's axe? Abhi dismissed it saying it only 'stunned' Surfer.
Tell me judges, is 'stunned' the word you would use to describe Surfer there?
If you'd like to imagine Cable telekinetically wielding either axe and continuously bashing Wonder Woman in the face with it, I think you might agree that she still wouldn't last very long.
Note that the only breakers of the board besides Cable that Abhi can name are other wielders of the Power Cosmic. Cable was the only one to do it with sheer, unquestionable force.
Awesome.
I also want to quickly touch on the fact that Cable's one of the best precision manipulators at the herald level. I've already gone over various feats with it, but consider that should Diana accomplish any sort of damage to Cable's person, he's already shown that he can a) manipulate and heal his organic body with TK and b) at full power, near-instantaneously perform massive atomic reparation to structures he's never seen before in his life
Healing himself while he smacks her in the face should be cake, considering he did similar to Surfer while make said reparations and levitating an entire island (the force of which, if I hadn't said it enough, would again be his to wield, and would again serve in the beatdown of Diana's domepiece).
However, if all this isn't ludicrous enough as is, smacking around Surfer, making atomic reparations and levitating Providence definitely wasn't all Cable was doing simultaneously. Which brings me to my next category...
Last edited by Smurph on May 24th, 2012 at 10:52 AM
Here I'm going to quickly deconstruct the smoke that Abhi's attempted to throw up regarding the lasso, and then I'll get to Diana's complete lack of other defenses.
Lasso
Ok, so basically what Abhi's tried to say is that Cable can't remove
Diana's lasso because she... commands it otherwise?
Or, you know, when she commanded it to feed Genocide power and nuke a bunch of innocent souls.
Basically, you can interpret that combined with Abhi's defense (claiming that Diana has easy control of the lasso) in two different ways:
Either you can believe that she's controlling the lasso, in which case you have to accept that Fernus is controlling her, as he was the rest of the League...
...or you can believe that she really doesn't have ultimate control of that rope, and you can realize that Cable, being able to touch everything in the room, can easily separate it from her person while he telekinetically slams the force of Providence into her forehead.
Other Resistance
Ok, here's the fun part.
So Abhi has yet to show us Wonder Woman resisting the telepathy of anybody greater than Maxwell Lord - a low herald level telepath at best, whose best feat was taking years to infiltrate the mind of Superman.
Cable? Well, let's say that he's a different story.
I wouldn't put Max Lord above the likes of Emma Frost, a planetary telepath in her own right with one of the five strongest minds on Marvel Earth.
He's done so in the process of simply listening to the planet's thoughts, without even actively attempting to manipulate a single mind and without giving any real attempt to break shields.
And yet Emma was still cracking like an egg by being simply close to the island that he inhabited.
That's right you guys. Cable simultaneously:
Levitated Providence
Fought Surfer
Instantly atomically repaired everything they passed
Read the minds of the entire planet, telepathically ionizing Earth's atmosphere while doing so
Here he actually talks about how he's constantly soothing the pain of every person on the planet dying of any kind of disease.
This is what Cable does passively with his telepathic might, without actually using his telepathy as the powerful sledgehammer that it can be.
What I'm getting at with all of this is that Cable is obviously a telepath far out of the league of anybody that Abhi has shown Diana resisting.
I mean, Maxwell Lord and Dr. Psycho? Let's try and avoid a no-limits fallacy here and see the claim that Diana is immune to telepathic tampering backed up.
We know she's been parts of teams that have been repeatedly dominated by Fernus and Despero, and she's held telepathic communication with J'onn in the past. Clearly she's not entirely immune. At best we can say she can see through some illusions or has resistance to her perceptions being bent, but, as I showed, that was utterly useless against Fernus' own invisibility.
Ultra-Humanite directly controlled her mind as well, with the power of Jakeem Thunder's Thunderbolt. Obviously a powerful tool, but the point remains that there is an upper limit to Diana's so-called immunity to mental tampering.
Really, at the end of the day, even if she could see through telepathic illusions and couldn't be mind controlled (big ifs, given the lack of evidence), without outright evidence of immunity to telepathy (which we know she doesn't have, given that she's telepathically communicated with allies in the past), her mind can still be smashed into paste.
Just like Cable will do to her face.
Conclusion
As I've shown, Cable is an absolutely ridiculous multi-tasker with an absolutely ludicrous amount of power at his disposal.
It is clearly within his ability to maintain an actively repair a great number of shields, while driving all his world-ionizing telepathic might into Diana's mind, while smashing Diana's pretty features into the clay they were made from with the combined force that it takes to levitate Providence and break Surfer's board.
He can keep up this assault, being freshly rested (unlike any appearance he's ever had as God-Like Cable), and he can simultaneously choke out Diana with her own lasso.
Finally, he can also repair any damage to his person as quickly as Diana can hope to deliver it.
He has ultimate battlefield control in this match, and Diana, a close-combat competitor, falls prey to somebody with the reach, versatility and assortment of physical and non-physical powers that Cable brings to the table.
Last edited by Smurph on May 24th, 2012 at 10:53 AM
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