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marvel cosmology
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leonidas
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marvel cosmology

ok, so a thread dedicated to a discussion about the oft f'd up cosmology that comprises the marvel universe.....

i'll repost a couple replies and questions that can maybe get the ball rolling. any trolling/flaming/acting like an a-hole will get your a$$ reported in a hurry.

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey Leo, I wanted the water to cool down before we continued.
I want to discuss this further but with patience, respect and a coconut smile.

Aside from the debate concerning the Dr Strange scan you posted ...

I noticed you dismissed the many scans I posted proving my point
concerning whether or not Magus was in another Universe outside 616,
or in another Universe within 616.

I'll start using scanned links from now on cause thumbnails seem to offend some.



Ok. So let's take this one step at a time so we don't lose ourselves.

I'd first like to know your official stance.

I gather you're saying the 616 Reality ...
(which from what I know, has always been a single entire universe and why its labeled 616)
contains instead other entire universeS.

Is this correct? ...


===========================================



yo,

no, you're not quite getting what i'm saying. the 616 universe IS a singular universe. that is indisputable and i don't believe i have said otherwise, but it's possible i mixed things up in a post somewhere. if i did, 'pologies. i don't like making those kinds of errors if i did.

my stance is--and has always been--that the 616 universe is just ONE universe nestled within 616 ETERNITY. it's not the 616 that is a multiverse. it is ETERNITY itself. we're just one of countless universes, dimensions and realities that call 616 eternity home. at least that is always how i have viewed it and that is why the scans i posted make sense to me. it's also how i see things like alternate dormammu's existing, and cyttorak's and even vishanti. each alternate universe exists within an alternate ETERNITY, which is, again, a multiverse unto itself.

now, i freely admit that is MY interpretation and it may be wrong (and this is derailing the thread but hopefuly we can bring it back full circle....)


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 07:52 PM
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leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Master
===========================================


If so, do you know how many (because the Dimensional Corridor is infinite)

Also, what is the point of the Multiverse
if the Marvel Universes are already located within the single 616 Reality?

If the 616 Reality/Eternity contains "whole" UniverseS in one hand,
surely we're talking about many UniverseS if he tries harder
than lifting a hand.

I'm also interested in knowing if you believe Earth-98651 (Koon's Universe)
is located withIN the 616 Reality.

This is withIN the same Dimensional Corridor
where big G and friends went looking for the Magus's stronghold:


Koon has been looking for his Universe withIN the "CrossRoads" (Dimensional Corridor)
for eons,
and is not concerned with the demise of other UniverseS, namely 616.

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12346953_Realities_away23.jpg]

"We came to this Dimensional Corridor ..... Our Universe hangs in the balance."

Koon replies:

"Your Universe? ... I care nothing for your Universe.

I only wish to return to my Universe after eons of being marooned here"


-------------------------------


[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347204_Realities_away24.jpg]

"... aid me in escaping this Eternal CrossRoads ...

... I discovered portals to a myriad of Planes ..."


===========================================


Notice the Dimensional Corridor (big G & friends went through looking for Magus)
is also called the "CrossRoads" ...
there's another tie-in where it's labeled the "CrossRoads of infinity"


The "CrossRoads" or "CrossRoads of Infinity"
is/has always been an infinite Nexus that leads to all other UniverseS outside 616:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12347015_Beyonder_explores_the_Mulitverse2.jpg]

"The CrossRoads. which lies at a Nexus of Realities"

-------------------------------

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12347016_Beyonder-CrossRoads1.jpg]

""The CrossRoads ... stretching on forever ...

-------------------------------

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347206_Beyonder-CrossRoads2.jpg]

"... Infinite breadth of the CrossRoads


===========================================


Leo, there's also the fact that withIN the story itself
with big G and friends looking for Magus
the Dimensional Corridor was called a Nexus:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347058_Realities_away20.jpg]

"This Nexus between dimensions" ...


[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12347149_Realities_away21.jpg]

"This maze of Realities"


===========================================


So we got several instances where the Dimensional Corridor is synonymous with the "Nexus of Realities" & the "CrossRoads."

And history has taught us that the "CrossRoads" or "CrossRoads of infinity"
is an infinite Nexus to other UniverseS/RealitieS outside 616.



okay...... again, this is only speculation (freely admitted) on my part, but i think it fits in with the scans i have shown, AND the scans you have shown. i'm a fan of occam's razor. i view eternity (all versions, not just 616) as a body. the cells of its body are the realities and universes that make it up. sticking with that analogy, i see the corridor and crossroads as veins or arteries or maybe even highways to mix the metaphor that can be used to either reach other universes/dimenions WITHIN each version of eternity, or (as in the case of koon) to reach ALTERNATE versions of eternity. and obviously they are dangerous and tricky and one can become lost and even marooned within them. to my way of thinking, the scans only further support the idea that eternity 616 (and all eternities) are multiversal beings. the corridors simply allow movement within and across the nearly infinite number of realities/dimensions that comprise each individual eternity, and of course grant access to the even MORE limitless number of alternate 'eternities' in existence. and that answers your first question--it is this collection of 'eternities' that comprise the multiverse as we know it.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 07:53 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Master
=============================


The 616 Reality/Universe is a single (one) Reality/Universe according to Marvel:

*** (OHotMU 2006 - LT bio) ***


(please log in to view the image)

"A Universe is a SINGLE-Dimension Reality, such as Earth 616,
the Mainstream Marvel Universe.

The Multiverse ...
is the collection of Alternate Dimensions with a similar nature and Universal hierarchy
.

......................................................................................................


*** (OHotMU 2008 - Glossary of Definitions) ***


Earth 616: (616 Universe)

(please log in to view the image)

"Core Continuum designation given to the Prime Earth of the Marvel Universe,
Reality from which most Alternate Earths derive
"

......................................................................................................


Multiverse: (group of alternate/divergent/parallel UniverseS)

(please log in to view the image)

"Group of Alternate UniverseS containing the same Hierarchy,
including Eternity, Infinity and the Watchers
"



yep, i agree with all of that. the 616 universe/dimension is indeed singular, but as i've said, that doesn't contradict my personal interpretation of the marvel multiverse.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 07:57 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Master
=====================================


The Eternity that popped up in front of Dr Strange during the Infinity Crusade arc,

... did not care about the 616 Reality and the dangers it faced:


[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12347342_ET_doesnt_care_about_616-5.jpg]

"The Goddess ... she does not concern me"

"Me to intervene in a matter involving a ONE Dimension?" (616 Reality/Universe)

"You're risking your all against such an infinitesimal part of myself." (616 Reality/Universe)


-------------------------------------


While this Eternity obviously doesn't care about the 616 Reality/Universe,
it does though concern itself with the Multiverse instead.

In fact,
just giving Dr Strange a vision is suffice to produce dire results for the ALL the Multiverse.


[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12347423_ET_doesnt_care_about_616-7.jpg]


=====================================


This is interesting, cause Warlock received the same treatment from the same Eternity/Infinity:

They didn't care about the 616 Reality/Universe: (tie-in to Infinity Crusade)


[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12347344_ET_doesnt_care_about_616-2.jpg]

"Machinations of (the Goddess) hold no interest to us"

"Concern ourselves over it? No."

"Our Realm is Forever,
we can't be preoccupied by any ONE Aspect of our Reality.
" (one "aspect" is one universe)

"We are all" ... "No ONE part of the whole is indispensable"


(ONE part being the 616 Universe)


-------------------------------------


[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12347345_ET_doesnt_care_about_616-3.jpg]

"Before you stands the Embodiment of Actuality."

"We may exist in Myriad fashions and over the millennia have."

"Do not pester us with matters of little import."


(The 616 Universe? ... "little import?" ... because you exist in "myriad" fashions?)

Are the "Myriad fashions" your alternates? (reasonable enough)


=====================================



+++ I can't see how 616 Eternity representing that single Universe/Dimension/Reality (616)
would not care what happens to it.

I can see 616 Eternity representing its totality
which would then be the Multiversal consciousness of all space-time in Marvel
being portrayed as not giving shit about 616. +++


=====================================


Anyway ... this actually happened not once, but twice to Warlock.

Here' Eternity now alone, telling Warlock the same thing basically:


[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12347424_ET_doesnt_care_about_616-1.jpg]

"It holds no significance to my existence"


That's incredible.


Then again,
this Eternity is the same one it seems that popped up in the Abraxas arc:

"I am Forever. All that ever was, is or will be."


--------------------------------------------------------------


That's exactly what the Eternity from the Abraxas arc is to Roma, the Omniversal guardian:


[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12347546_Et.jpg]

"All That Ever Was, Ever Is, or Ever Will Be"


--------------------------------------------------------------


The Abraxas arc was dealing with 616 Eternity's totality,
in which case is the infinite Multiverse of Alternate Realities.

Just sayin.


laughing out loud

i think you can now see where i'm going with this batch of questions. 616 eternity didn't care about the 616 universe for exactly the reasons he said--it is an almost infinitesimally small portion of him. it is simply one universe among the countless number that make up 616 eternity's totality. once 616 eternity is viewed as a multiverse unto itself, everything else seems to fall in line.

abraxas' feat was much different from anything the IG or goddess did and he was a bigger threat to the TRUE multiverse. again, using the body analogy, picture an endless number of eternities lined up (as in the ff arc). abraxas was acting like an eraser. he was wiping out the outlines of the eternity bodies and forcing them to merge. all the alternate eternities being forced together and blending and mixing. he did what magus did with his TWO universes WITHIN 616 eternity, on a truly multiversal scale. abraxas' feat imo far exceeded magus's. ftr, i don't see the IG being able to deal with abraxas anymore than i think it could handle lucifer for much the same reason.....


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 08:06 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Master
Weren't you discussing a Lion vs a Tiger in one of these threads? stick out tongue


==============================


The Dormammu scan also revolves around the Multiversal Eternity,
which is 616 Eternity in its totality,
which = the infinite Multiverse of Alternate UniverseS.

616 Eternity/Infinity create/destroy entire UniverseS all day, everyday,
but the action takes place elsewhere obviously outside 616,
otherwise, how would an entire Reality survive,
if entire Realities are exploding/rebirthing withIN it.

An ENTIRE Reality would have to = the 616 in size,
so in essence the 616 Reality would be destroyed as well.

This is why this makes no sense if you push these "whole/entire"
Realities/UniverseS into 616.

In Marvel, entire Realities can't mesh together cause it'll lead to collapse.

This is what was happening during,
the Abraxas arc, the Chaos Engine Trilogy, and Ultraverse/Avengers.


==============================


[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347766_DormyMulti1.jpg]

"It always comes down to
conquering The Universe
... well, Multiverse in my case
.


.................................................................................................


[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347769_Dormymulti16.jpg]

"I will erase you from existence ... and then ... All the Multiverse will follow!"


.................................................................................................


[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347767_Dormymulti6.jpg]

"This is the blood of one who is perhaps the single most powerful entity in all the Multiverse!"


.................................................................................................


Umar said that with This Eternity's power
the 616 Universe itself is a little corner of the cosmos.

She goes on to say that with 616 Eternity's power All the UniverseS are at her disposal:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347768_Dormymulti11.jpg]


smile


With this Eternity's power Umar also called the 616 Reality itself a little Universe:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12347770_Dormymulti19.jpg]

.................................................................................................

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


and again, i reply with the same response i`ve given. ALL of that fits in with what i was saying about 616 eternity (and all eternities in the TRUE multiverse) are themselves multiverses. your original understanding of my position is what the issue was but hopefully i`ve clarified that.

the benefit to my way of thinking is pretty simple imo--it doesn`t require that i try and force the idea of a multiversal level eternity entity into anything when there is never any direct evidence that this `multi- eternity that was brought up in that abraxas arc is who is being discussed.

i don`t dispute this multi-eternity exists. i think it is the collection of ALL eternities. there is a form of shared consciousness among eternities, but i don`t think the multi-eternity from the ff arc has ever made an appearance or been referenced since that abraxas arc. imo, i don`t think there is any need to ever bring that entity into any discussion.

so, hopefully that is somewhat clear. it`s why i see the IG working across teh universes nestled inside 616 eternity, but not working in alternate versions of eternity as was said in the recent ff arc. it`s why i don`t believe (the ultraverse episode aside) that the IG can be seen as a multiversal level weapon but only universal. and that of course is why i sided with lucifer in that original thread and would side with abraxas were THAT thread opened.

whew.....

now, i`ve a question of my own--if you see eternity 616 as being limited to representing JUST the 616 universe, where do you fit in all the other dimensions like cyttorak`s cosmos, or the vishanti`s--recent arcs (like the magik ltd and even the serpent saga) have had some of those entities binding together to face dangers. if beings like cyttorak had nothing to do with us and our universe, why wouldn`t they just ignore any threat. and how do you explain instances of alternate versions of all of these other-dimensional entities--how do their alternate realms come into being......


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 08:21 PM
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Mr Master
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas

now, i`ve a question of my own--

if you see eternity 616 as being limited to representing JUST the 616 universe,
where do you fit in all the other dimensions like cyttorak`s cosmos,
or the vishanti`s--recent arcs
(like the magik ltd and even the serpent saga)
have had some of those entities binding together to face dangers.
if beings like cyttorak had nothing to do with us and our universe,
why wouldn`t they just ignore any threat.

and how do you explain instances of alternate versions of all of these other-dimensional entities--
how do their alternate realms come into being......

Darn it Leo, reposting replies was not good, many of my links are duds. mad

Alternate characters are from Alternate Universes.

Vishanti don't care about 616 either.
(I have Aggy literally stating this about Strange's Universe)

I learned yesterday that even Pocket-Realms are outside 616,
while I was under the impression that wasn't the case.

I'll pull up the scans in a bit.

They are definitely part of the prime Multiverse,
but they are definitely located outside 616,
or more precisely in another Space adjacent to 616.

The only difference between a pocket-verse and a universe is size.
A universe is infinite, while a pocket-verse has boundaries.
They both occupy their own individual space in the Multiverse.


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 08:34 PM
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leonidas
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i guess i'm still not following your interpretation of how marvel's cosmology works. so you think eternity represents JUST our little universe? and that the one strange saw, and dormmy conquered (and fought previously) are different versions somehow of the eternity that thanos replaced with the IG? i guess i don't get why you insist on forcing a distinction when scans (even your own, particularly the eternity/infinity scans stating our universe is nothing to them) when simply allowing for the fact that eternity 616 does NOT represent just a universe, but COUNTLESS universes. not ALTERNATE versions of those universes though.... those exist as other versions of eternity.

why does that not fit in your mind?


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 09:02 PM
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Endless Mike
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Master The only difference between a pocket-verse and a universe is size.
A universe is infinite, while a pocket-verse has boundaries.
They both occupy their own individual space in the Multiverse. [/B]


Nova's series established that the 616 universe has definite boundaries.

http://i46.tinypic.com/534kgh.jpg

(They later reached the Rip they were talking about)


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 09:23 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Nova's series established that the 616 universe has definite boundaries.

http://i46.tinypic.com/534kgh.jpg

(They later reached the Rip they were talking about)


yeah, i was going to address some of his more particular points. but the edge of the universe has been mentioned a couple times i think. good scan though.

the entire disagreement hinges on the definition of 616. you (masters) sees it as defining a very limited single universe. i think 616 represents a much broader construction--a multiverse unto itself. i don't get WHY the need to differentiate though. you say my stance makes sense--what in marvel CONTRADICTS it and keeps it from being right?


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 09:44 PM
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Galan007
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I'm impartial to this discussion one way or the other. However, various stories HAVE defined the 616 universe as more than just singular...

After Dormammu and Umar kill Eternity...

"DimensionS folding into themselves! Entire universeS being born, and collapsing into ruin! Yet I sense that all this is but a FRACTION of what Eternity is.":
(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)
---
And here it is flat-out stated as well...

"Eternity, the cosmic being whose essence encompasses the entirety of the MULTIVERSE.":
(please log in to view the image)


If 616 Eternity does not represent more than a single universe, how do you explain the above? Don't get me wrong, I understand both sides of the debate--but there are huge inconsistencies somewhere that need to be ironed out...


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Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 24th, 2012 at 10:26 PM

Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 10:20 PM
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leonidas
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yeah, i know it. my thought is he would say those scenes reference MULTI-ETERNITY--the one shown in the ff arc i think...... but that's just MY understanding of how he's explaining things and i could be wrong. like i said above, i just don't understand why it's so necessary that eternity 616 represent something as limited as a single universe when so much evidence exists that it represents so much more. maybe it's the definition of 616 and what it includes? i'm not sure......


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 10:40 PM
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Galan007
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afaik, the only time "multi"Eternity has ever been specifically referenced on panel was in the Fantastic Four 2001 Annual--and since the scans I posted are from comics published post-2001, I suppose it is possible that it was "multi"Eternity that was being used... But if that were the case, you'd think the writers would have told the readers such an important fact. They had no problem making the clear distinction between Eternity/"multi"Eternity in the F4 Annual, after all. /shrug

Like I said: there are inconsistencies somewhere...


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 10:56 PM
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Endless Mike
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I always saw it as there being a 616 universe within the 616 multiverse. Like New York City is a part of New York State.

As for Eternity, he is a fraction of Multi-Eternity but they are essentially the same being, just usually when Eternity is defeated it's just that fraction and not Multi-Eternity


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Old Post Jun 24th, 2012 11:06 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike
I always saw it as there being a 616 universe within the 616 multiverse. Like New York City is a part of New York State.


almost exactly what i was saying..... the bit about eternity's defeat makes sense to me as well.


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2012 12:53 AM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Master
Darn it Leo, reposting replies was not good, many of my links are duds. mad

Alternate characters are from Alternate Universes.

Vishanti don't care about 616 either.
(I have Aggy literally stating this about Strange's Universe)

I learned yesterday that even Pocket-Realms are outside 616,
while I was under the impression that wasn't the case.

I'll pull up the scans in a bit.

They are definitely part of the prime Multiverse,
but they are definitely located outside 616,
or more precisely in another Space adjacent to 616.

The only difference between a pocket-verse and a universe is size.
A universe is infinite, while a pocket-verse has boundaries.
They both occupy their own individual space in the Multiverse.


So alternates are from alternate 616 universes. I agree. But many what ifs happen as a result of different choices made by 616 characters. If that is true, that should lead to an alternate 616 universe. And it does. But, it leads to far far more in many cases. It also leads to alternate versions of many of the dimensions that regularly interact with the 616 universe like hell and Asgard and dormmys dimension and cyttoraks, etc.... How do you explain the spontaneous creation of all these other dimensions from a choice made in the 616? IMO when a choice is made the entire 616 multiverse is recreated. This is the same if any choice in any of the other dimensions that make up the 616 multiverse is made.

It also makes sense that none of those extra dimensional entities would care about our universe since it is simply a small piece of the greater 616 multiverse at large.

I agree btw that these other dimensions are obviously not part of the 616 universe. I don't see how you can say so definitively they are hanging around in space though as opposed to being part of a larger 616 multiverse which is personified in the person of 616 eternity.


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2012 02:14 PM
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basilisk
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What about the Negative Zone? This was supposed to be the anti-matter counterpart of the positive universe. Clearly alternate versions of it were shown in What If, but then later it was retcon-implied that there was only one Negative Zone that led to all the different positive universes. Part of 616?

Then there is the Ultimate version of the Negative Zone, which doesn't fit into either pre or post Negative Zone retcon.

Or Limbo? Again seems to be only one in some stories, but there are alternate versions of Magik etc. running around too. But I think only one Immortus.

Mephisto's realm? Seems to be one in each multiverse. Agammotto's realm?

616 still seems to be a multiverse in itself because it has its own Asgard, Dark Dimension, hells, Reality Gem, IG etc - a "universe" with different "realities" within it. The alternate earths, Asgards, DD, and universal artifacts seem to be in their own multiverses and form part of a greater omniverse.

There was that interesting short in Dr Strange of LT showing all the different realities. Some far different than the familiar.

Old Post Jun 25th, 2012 03:51 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by basilisk
What about the Negative Zone? This was supposed to be the anti-matter counterpart of the positive universe. Clearly alternate versions of it were shown in What If, but then later it was retcon-implied that there was only one Negative Zone that led to all the different positive universes. Part of 616?

Then there is the Ultimate version of the Negative Zone, which doesn't fit into either pre or post Negative Zone retcon.

Or Limbo? Again seems to be only one in some stories, but there are alternate versions of Magik etc. running around too. But I think only one Immortus.

Mephisto's realm? Seems to be one in each multiverse. Agammotto's realm?

616 still seems to be a multiverse in itself because it has its own Asgard, Dark Dimension, hells, Reality Gem, IG etc - a "universe" with different "realities" within it. The alternate earths, Asgards, DD, and universal artifacts seem to be in their own multiverses and form part of a greater omniverse.

There was that interesting short in Dr Strange of LT showing all the different realities. Some far different than the familiar.


Yeah, IMO, all those realms you mentioned are nestled within 616 eternity/ multiverse.... To say they are all independent and simply exist in some....void sems very.....inelegant to me and contrary to what scans have shown.

I think at least some of the problem is a result of the term 616. I think it can be used to define both a universe where the heroes live, and the multiverse that in encompassed by the 616 version of eternity. Seems the easiest explanation to me and it agrees with all the facts shown THUS far....


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Old Post Jun 25th, 2012 04:01 PM
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Mr Master
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Location: somewhere within time & space

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas

i guess i'm still not following your interpretation of how marvel's cosmology works.
so you think eternity represents JUST our little universe?
and that the one strange saw, and dormmy conquered
(and fought previously)
are different versions somehow of the eternity that thanos replaced with the IG?
i guess i don't get why you insist on forcing a distinction when scans (even your own, particularly the eternity/infinity scans stating our
universe is nothing to them) when simply allowing for the fact that
eternity 616 does NOT represent just a universe, but COUNTLESS
universes. not ALTERNATE versions of those universes though....
those exist as other versions of eternity.

I've always said that 616 Eternity/Infinity possess the power
of the infinite prime Multiverse of alternate Universes.

That's what all those scans represent. (Dormy/Entropy-Genis/Strange)

It is true,
Eternity/Infinity's consciousness does span the entirety of the prime Multiverse.

This is the perfect example:

This is Earth-82432 (an alternate entire Universe/Eternity)

When it's form (physical Universe-82432) was nullified,
Strange/Jean/Surfer were going to attempt to re-create the physical universe that was there.

This Alternate Eternity (definitely NOT 616 - definitely NOT the Multiverse)
spoke as though it was the Multiverse, made up of nigh-infinite Universes.

(please log in to view the image)

"of the number of Aspects that comprise my Totality."

"I am the only Aspect to succumb to death."


-----------------------------------------------------------------


We know without a doubt that this Alternate Eternity was speaking about OTHER
Eternitys when he said "infinite number of Aspects that comprise my Totality."

Because at the bottom of the same page Strange says:

"Eternity spoke of infinite universeS beyond this.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


What does this tell us?

Any Eternity = any Eternity in terms of consciousness.

They're all one consciousness. One Essence.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


This does not mean they share the same form,
as in, non on them embody the Multiverse entire,
otherwise the Multiverse would've been erased when this Alternate got rubbed out,
likewise Thanos would've replaced the actual Multiverse instead of just the 616 Universe.

Basically, this is why there's an Eternity/Infinity for every separate Universe.

All Marvel entire Universes withIN 3D Space-Time are embodied by an Eternity/Infinity,
but evidently, they all share the same consciousness.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


My point is my friend, that when Eternity/Infinity speak, (from 616 to whichever)
it seems they can take on a Multiversal tone due to the seeming fact
that they are all one and the same consciously speaking.

Imo. smile

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas


why does that not fit in your mind?

Leo, if you wanna discuss this, let's refrain from comments such as these.

I already told you I understood what you said and I even said I like it in the vs thread.

I don't agree with it doesn't mean it's beyond my comprehension.


__________________

Old Post Jun 25th, 2012 04:15 PM
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Mr Master
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: somewhere within time & space

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike

Nova's series established that the 616 universe has definite boundaries.

Those are two guys talking.
While on panel we've 616 Eternity and all Eternity have been described as Infinite by the essence of the life Captain Universe.
(this is also while the artist artistically illustrated what he was saying)

Other instances as well.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Endless Mike


(They later reached the Rip they were talking about)

Post the scans for me cause I don't believe I have that issue.

I'd like to know what happened.

Also, what issues are those so I can get the full story.


__________________

Old Post Jun 25th, 2012 04:21 PM
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Mr Master
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Gender: Male
Location: somewhere within time & space

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007

I'm impartial to this discussion one way or the other.
However,
various stories HAVE defined the 616 universe as more than just singular...

After Dormammu and Umar kill Eternity...

I've posted those scans forever friend.

But I'd like to know where in that arc was it stated/defined
that the 616 Universe is more than just singular?

I remember this definition:

(please log in to view the image)

"It always comes down to conquering the Universe,

well ... MULTIVERSE in my case"


(Dormammu actually differenciates the Two terms)


------------------------------------------------


My friends, with this new mid-2012 logic yall are introducing we'll
never know when a Marvel story pertains to the 616 Universe/Eternity,
or the Multiverse that houses the 616 Universe/Eternity.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007


---
And here it is flat-out stated as well...

"Eternity, the cosmic being whose essence encompasses the entirety of the MULTIVERSE.":

I'm not surprised, since Entrpoy/Genis also rubbed out the Microverse,
which is located in the Universe created by "the Makers" way outside the 616 Universe.

And since he rubbed out the Microverse,
then he rubbed out the Multiverse of alternate Universes.

The only type of Multiverse that there is actually.


__________________

Last edited by Mr Master on Jun 25th, 2012 at 04:36 PM

Old Post Jun 25th, 2012 04:34 PM
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