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marvel cosmology
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basilisk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
It used to be referenced on a regular basis in Captain Britain related books and Exiles from what I remember. FF and X-Men titles referenced it on a few occasions but not as frequently. Current Marvel uses it in a bigger capacity and across a bigger array of titles from what I can tell.

And it was used to refer to the "present" mainstream marvel reality if that's what you're asking. It was never used in the same context as your spidey instance, at least not from what I remember. Although I always thought that alternate futures weren't necessarily alternate realities; it all depends on the writer's intentions and several instances in comics support this stance (we debated this before).


Also it's interesting to note occasionally the mainstream MU has been referred to as the "Prime Reality", the one from which all others came. In the Avengers Proctor arc it was emphasized quite a lot - alternate realities and characters were just "echoes" of the Prime versions. I guess it sounds better than having the characters talking about 616.

Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 04:36 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by basilisk
Also it's interesting to note occasionally the mainstream MU has been referred to as the "Prime Reality", the one from which all others came. In the Avengers Proctor arc it was emphasized quite a lot - alternate realities and characters were just "echoes" of the Prime versions. I guess it sounds better than having the characters talking about 616.


i guess the question is what constitutes this 'prime reality'? same question different term i guess. i mean we've seen the 616 'universe' referred to as a reality, an actuality, and continuum.... it's like marvel is doing everything in its power to intentionally make it impossible to sort out. lol


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 04:40 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i mean we've seen the 616 'universe' referred to as a reality, an actuality, and continuum....
I've always been of the impression that these terms can be used interchangeably. confused


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 05:32 PM
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leonidas
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that's sort of what i'm saying--sticking with terminology is a huge mistake. continuum is something different though and would SEEM to imply more than a single universe.... 616 as a continuum feels better and closer to what marvel 616 seems to have come to mean. imo.


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 06:16 PM
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Astner
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Spacetime-continuum is used interchangeably with universe.


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 06:25 PM
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operator616
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
that's sort of what i'm saying--sticking with terminology is a huge mistake. continuum is something different though and would SEEM to imply more than a single universe.... 616 as a continuum feels better and closer to what marvel 616 seems to have come to mean. imo.


It really isn't though. And like its synonyms (reality, universe, actuality) it depends on the context in which it is being used.
Marvel comics have stated that their multiverse is made up of infinite number of continuums (realities). In the early DC issues it was established that the parallel realities of the multiverse occupy the same space continuum but different time continuum.

Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 08:38 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
It really isn't though. And like its synonyms (reality, universe, actuality) it depends on the context in which it is being used.
Marvel comics have stated that their multiverse is made up of infinite number of continuums (realities). In the early DC issues it was established that the parallel realities of the multiverse occupy the same space continuum but different time continuum.


your own statement would seem to indicate that the terminology is fluid. if the term is independent on context and interpretation, it by definition allows for DIFFERENT interpretations and so becomes problematic.

but i thought all the infinite earths simple vibrated at different frequencies in dc... confused


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 10:13 PM
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Astner
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
your own statement would seem to indicate that the terminology is fluid. if the term is independent on context and interpretation, it by definition allows for DIFFERENT interpretations and so becomes problematic.

I think the problem is that the editors allow contradictory liberties with concepts that are thought of as abstract, and the writers don't seem to have a shared grasp of what the multiverse is supposed to be.


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 10:22 PM
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operator616
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
your own statement would seem to indicate that the terminology is fluid. if the term is independent on context and interpretation, it by definition allows for DIFFERENT interpretations and so becomes problematic.



Of course it does, hence my response that the term "continuum" could refer to a single universe as well as multiple/infinite. You said that "continuum" is different from the other terms and seems to imply more than one universe while in fact it can and has been used to refer to a single universe (as well as many, in other cases). It's no different than any of the other terms like universe/reality/actuality. That was my point.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
but i thought all the infinite earths simple vibrated at different frequencies in dc... confused


The Earths occupy the same space but vibrate at a different frequency. Vibrating on a different frequency puts them on a different time continuum. Hence why characters like GL and Flash were able to simply vibrate at a different frequency, vibrating their molecules faster, and end up in an alternate universe.

Last edited by operator616 on Aug 19th, 2016 at 10:51 PM

Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 10:49 PM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
Of course it does, hence my response that the term "continuum" could refer to a single universe as well as multiple/infinite. You said that "continuum" is different from the other terms and seems to imply more than one universe while in fact it can and has been used to refer to a single universe (as well as many, in other cases). It's no different than any of the other terms like universe/reality/actuality. That was my point.


lol

so i say the terminology is confusing and fluid and allows for different interpretations, and you agree. i say that continuum seems different to me because it would appear to imply many instead of just a single universe, and you say in some cases it DOES imply many?? blink

well, guess we can call that debate closed. thumb up

tbf, i never really looked at the term in conjunction with spacetime as astner pointed out. in that context, i agree with him (and you i think....) that it is most often used to connote a singular universe.



quote:
The Earths occupy the same space but vibrate at a different frequency. Vibrating on a different frequency puts them on a different time continuum. Hence why characters like GL and Flash were able to simply vibrate at a different frequency, vibrating their molecules faster, and end up in an alternate universe. [/B]


hmm, that is something i didn't know. i thought they were in different spaces, not times....


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2016 11:53 PM
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basilisk
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by operator616
The Earths occupy the same space but vibrate at a different frequency. Vibrating on a different frequency puts them on a different time continuum. Hence why characters like GL and Flash were able to simply vibrate at a different frequency, vibrating their molecules faster, and end up in an alternate universe.
Heh, remember the Watcher's comment in the very first What If about the Superman/Spiderman fight - "doubts exist as to whether it took place in this time continuum or another." He also tells the reader that issue's story about Spidey joining the FF "never happened in your time continuum". Simpler times...

Old Post Aug 20th, 2016 10:32 AM
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eaebiakuya
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It was said Beyonders created the multiverse. But is also said First Firmament created the first universe.

Can we consider that Beyonders created the 7th multiverse?

Old Post May 14th, 2017 05:20 AM
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Galan007
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thumb up

It was indeed alluded to that the Beyonders created the seventh multiverse as an 'experiment' of sorts. When they felt this experiment had run its course, they opted to start destroying it... This was the catalyst that ultimately resulted in the destruction of the seventh multiverse, yet sparked the eighth.


Anyway, Owen heavily implied such during a convo with Doom:

(please log in to view the image)


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Old Post May 15th, 2017 04:45 AM
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eaebiakuya
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Yes, i agree. Nice reply.

And what about the Entitie that generate the Infinity Gems? How we can fit it in this new "Ewing cosmology"? That thing have some similarities with FF it self:

(please log in to view the image)

Some ideas(?)

1) It was FF ?
2) It was the god of the 5th or 6th universe? Still, this dont make much sense, because in 6th there was live (like Galan)
3) Is not possible to fit, just retcon?

Old Post May 15th, 2017 08:45 PM
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eaebiakuya
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Another question i had was: The Celestials survive after every multiverse ending, or they die and reborn everytime?

But after i read again Ultimates, i came with a awnser:

http://imgur.com/a/HWxEB

They can move to a hidden place in time/space (maybe even outside the multiverse?). I guess we can assume they did this everything the multiverse was about to end.

Last edited by eaebiakuya on May 15th, 2017 at 08:52 PM

Old Post May 15th, 2017 08:49 PM
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psycho gundam
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None of this space shit makes sense. DC/Marvel cosmic stuff gets replaced and new layers are applied over old canon like wallpaper.

Phuck all of it


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Old Post May 18th, 2017 10:55 PM
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eaebiakuya
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Ewing make some effort to use the cronology. His concept of many cosmos was really good to Marvel cosmology imo.

Old Post May 18th, 2017 11:18 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Yes, i agree. Nice reply.

And what about the Entitie that generate the Infinity Gems? How we can fit it in this new "Ewing cosmology"? That thing have some similarities with FF it self:

https://static2.comicvine.com/uploa...00722-image.jpg
They were depicted in a very similar light, imo. The First Firmament just seems more malevolent than the Infinity Being was ever presented, is all.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Another question i had was: The Celestials survive after every multiverse ending, or they die and reborn everytime?

But after i read again Ultimates, i came with a awnser:

http://imgur.com/a/HWxEB

They can move to a hidden place in time/space (maybe even outside the multiverse?). I guess we can assume they did this everything the multiverse was about to end.
thumb up

Yeah, I'd imagine that many of them are the 'originals'. Seems like the implication is that when a creation/extinction-event occurred, the Celestials just 'ported to that little dimension, rode out the storm there, and then reemerged in the new continuity.


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Last edited by Galan007 on May 20th, 2017 at 09:59 PM

Old Post May 20th, 2017 09:44 PM
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leonidas
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ok, so this NEW, post secret wars multiverse has provided us with some new info. in some ways it has helped, in others...still not sure.

we now know that the first multiverse was created when a war broke out between dark celestials and the classic, (now called renegade) celetsials and shattered the first creation (the FIRST FIRMAMENT) into pieces. each piece was a universe unto itself. these shattered pieces of the FF then coalesced into the very first MULTIVERSE--the first version of MULTI-ETERNITY.

http://imgur.com/xUNwRx3

we also know that the multiverse died and was reborn 8 different times and that the FF was still there, in the background, just waiting for its chance to pounce. it currently, in the ultimates, it finally has.

so, i like the orderly approach of this new look multiverse. some oddities have crept up though. because the multiverse is new, it seems the laws haven't been fully formed yet. as a result, we have things like the lifebringer galactus (whom, while cool, is simply not the old school g i really like...) and things like chaos and order being able to kill lt. it seems in the new multiverse, almost anything is possible. what of the other cosmics? still need to wait and see i guess. there is also only one celestial left--chaos and order, who, along with the inbetweener have remade themselves into the NEW order of the multiverse and have renamed themselves LOGOS--killed all but one of the celestials.

then there is the NEVER QUEEN. not sure how powerful she is, or what role she'll play.

some interesting developments in this new multiverse. at least the issue of MULTI-ETERNITY has finally been verified, and simplified. each universal eternity is indeed but part of the larger multi-eternity. still unclear exactly how a 'universe' is defined, but, at least it's a step in the right direction imo.

so, did i miss anything big?

if the beyonders shaped the 7th iteration of the multiverse, do we credit the fantastic four (franklin in particular) with the 8th? anything else people are hoping to see or have cleared up in this post-sw creation?


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Old Post May 28th, 2017 03:57 PM
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eaebiakuya
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Yes, the 8th was created by Molecular Man, Reed Richards and Franklin:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ WJmVVVDXB...Lq4Pket42rSJ=s0

I think the writers could use the others cosmos (2,3,4,5,6) to explain how marvel has multiple versions of "how the universe started".

Also, id like to say, Ewing give us some intel about the universes it self. The are the superflow:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3tbYc3Apy...Ic42/RCO014.jpg

Then, the Neutral zone:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XwXeGvEcE...Ic42/RCO015.jpg

Then, the outside:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/DZpgg_tYUv...8Rv7wNHvpXt0=s0
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ XJ1DzQXyi...UEzG-ohYEccA=s0
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/ cMaEhbD0U...m_XqZ2xuY4u_=s0

About other cosmic entities:
- Death was show in Thanos series. No feats at all.
- Phoenix was show in Thor and Thanos. Nothing new.
- Childrens of Eternity was show in Starbrand and Deathmask (RIP).

Any other that i forgot?

Last edited by eaebiakuya on May 29th, 2017 at 03:14 AM

Old Post May 29th, 2017 03:09 AM
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