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marvel cosmology
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
there is also only one celestial left--chaos and order, who, along with the inbetweener have remade themselves into the NEW order of the multiverse and have renamed themselves LOGOS--killed all but one of the celestials.
Yeah, the last Celestial left is OAA... He will undoubtedly play a MAJOR role in the inevitable fall of Logos and the First Firmament, imo. I mean, we know Celestials as a race are intimately tied-to the FF, and the Never Queen made it a point to save one for a reason.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
then there is the NEVER QUEEN. not sure how powerful she is, or what role she'll play.
I'm not sure exactly where she stands in the hierarchy(ESPECIALLY the current hierarchy) either. One thing is certain, though: she seems to be beyond the influence of Logos(and possibly the FF as well), given that she can not only troll him with NO repercussions, but she can also steal a Celestial without anyone knowing.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
if the beyonders shaped the 7th iteration of the multiverse, do we credit the fantastic four (franklin in particular) with the 8th?
Tbf, it was a combined effort between Reed(Owen-amped), Owen himself, and Franklin to create the 8th multiverse:
(please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image) (please log in to view the image)

*Franklin dreamed-up and initially shaped what appeared to be pocket realities, Reed expanded them into full-fledged universes and sent them hurling into creation, and a sliver of Owen was sent with each universe in order to 'anchor' it..... Or at least that's how I interpreted Val's retelling. /shrug

...Though it WAS stated that Franklin alone was playing with the "ENTIRE superstructure" in the final scan, so he was indeed implied to have been acting in a fully multiversal capacity either way. thumb up

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
so, did i miss anything big?
All I would add for the lulz is that Owen has now left his 'quasi-reality', and Lifebringer is currently hiding there, restoring his power:
(please log in to view the image)

*Worth noting this realm beyond the direct sight of any other abstracts(inc. Logos and the First Firmament.)


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Old Post May 29th, 2017 08:02 PM
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abhilegend
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As per latest retcon in Ultimates, LT is merely an inner function of Eternity.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EfNlsuxh...00/061_0026.jpg


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Old Post Aug 27th, 2017 05:27 PM
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leonidas
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yeah, and as per ultimates 2 #100, things have returned to pretty much normal. here are some of the key events of that issue:

https://imgur.com/a/A5tEg

t'challa getting into the fray was both cool and...really stupid imo. a simple earth god was able to take out multiversal law? hrm. i mean where does that place the tiger god's power in the grand scheme? what about the other earth gods?

feels like the hierarchy has changed pretty dramatically. gods have been bumped, abstracts have been lessened to some degree maybe.

i enjoyed the creation of the 5th host and was intrigued by the existence of the previous iterations of the multiverse. lots of speculation revolving around the 4th version... maybe comment more on that at a later time.

one thing i didn't add in the group scan was the opening page:

https://imgur.com/a/4V6FF

i found this page to be the most interesting page in the book in retrospect. i'd originally believed this was simply eternity speaking, but the more i think about it, the more i think that's wrong.

excepting that opening page, the only time we see that font used through the book is in narration. i'd assumed that since lt had always been viewed as a servant of the oaa, and that his new role has apparently been altered, that there was simply no more oaa in marvel. actually, i'd initially thought eternity simply assumed the role.

but i think that's wrong. i think ewing was telling us that there IS still oaa, and that HE is it--the writer. for the hell of it i googled some of the dialogue and found some interesting things:

https://imgur.com/a/4V6FF

"there is only ONE who truly deserves that name, and love is his only weapon..."

clearly kirby was referencing toaa in that classic scene from ff 72.

"the mystery intrigues me". this one is as clear as day:

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24668341/G1.jpg.html

a quote from mark waid, when he inserted himself into that famous ff comic. lol

so, anyway, yeah. clear as can be. ewing is painting himself as author as toaa, so at least we know that much has remained the same in terms of cosmology. i'm sure i'll add more later and please feel free to add to this or comment on any of the above. thumb up


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Old Post Aug 28th, 2017 02:28 PM
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Galan007
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HA! Glad you bumped this thread... We have lots to discuss.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
t'challa getting into the fray was both cool and...really stupid imo. a simple earth god was able to take out multiversal law? hrm. i mean where does that place the tiger god's power in the grand scheme? what about the other earth gods?
Very Stupid. Logos had bascally usurped LT's power/status/role and become a nigh-supreme being who was capable of slaying Celestials, Lifebringer/Galactus, and even LT himself... Yet BP waltzes up and effortlessly wtf-pwns him with a low-level(by comparison) earth totem, because "combat is a metaphor" in the Superflow..? Lmao, ridiculous.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i enjoyed the creation of the 5th host
Yeah, OAA birthing an entire Celestial-Host was pretty damned uber:
http://i.imgur.com/rV45IQX.jpg
...I wonder if that was always OAA's purpose, or if the Never Queen just made it his purpose in order to spawn a new possibility?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
and was intrigued by the existence of the previous iterations of the multiverse. lots of speculation revolving around the 4th version... maybe comment more on that at a later time.
I was intrigued by the nods to Stan Lee in the Fourth Cosmos' brief description:
http://i.imgur.com/Ohe5xin.jpg
"Pilgrim..."
"True believer..."
"Journeys into mystery..."
*Obviously those excerpts were placed with distinct intent... But why..?

Anywho, I really just want to know why the Fourth Cosmos wasn't summoned to the field along with the other multiverses..? It being a 'pilgrim' doesn't cut it for me. stick out tongue

_________________________________________


**On a somewhat related note: did anyone else notice that the Fifth Cosmos bound/imprisoned/beat the First Firmament...all by itself...with a gesture?:
http://i.imgur.com/HdHet0W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HtwafUx.jpg

...IOW, the other members of the 'Ultimate Ultimates' weren't even needed, lol.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i think ewing was telling us that there IS still oaa, and that HE is it--the writer. for the hell of it i googled some of the dialogue and found some interesting things:

https://imgur.com/a/4V6FF

"there is only ONE who truly deserves that name, and love is his only weapon..."

clearly kirby was referencing toaa in that classic scene from ff 72.

"the mystery intrigues me". this one is as clear as day:

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/24668341/G1.jpg.html

a quote from mark waid, when he inserted himself into that famous ff comic. lol

so, anyway, yeah. clear as can be. ewing is painting himself as author as toaa, so at least we know that much has remained the same in terms of cosmology. i'm sure i'll add more later and please feel free to add to this or comment on any of the above.
Damnation. Great catch, leo! thumb up

Even though Ewing's TOAA intro page was super random and felt entirely out of place, it's obvious(now that you've pointed it out, lol) that the dialogue was a very purposeful nod to the Kirby avatar that Waid depicted in F4 #511. Indeed, "THE MYSTERY INTRIGUES ME"...

Waid's page from "Fantastic Four" #511 (2004):
http://i.imgur.com/Uov1zJR.jpg

Ewing's page from "Ultimates 2" #100 (2017):
http://i.imgur.com/Ci81kNx.jpg


(please log in to view the image)

_________________________________________


**I'm just glad that Ewing seems to be of the mind that TOAA = a metatextual representation of Marvel's real world writers/artists. After all, Starlin's recent iteration of TOAA(whom he just called "Above-All-Others", lol) was depicted as a purely fictional character within Marvel's cosmic hierarchy... No 'meta' overtones at all:
http://i.imgur.com/2LApDYE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0WA3sKD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BqW4IwJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XhPVbFa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gPw89wR.jpg

sick


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大神官

Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 29th, 2017 at 01:26 AM

Old Post Aug 29th, 2017 01:12 AM
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leonidas
MWHAHAHAHA!

Gender: Male
Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
HA! Glad you bumped this thread... We have lots to discuss.


Very Stupid. Logos had bascally usurped LT's power/status/role and become a nigh-supreme being who was capable of slaying Celestials, Lifebringer/Galactus, and even LT himself... Yet BP waltzes up and effortlessly wtf-pwns him with a low-level(by comparison) earth totem, because "combat is a metaphor" in the Superflow..? Lmao, ridiculous.


pretty much echoes what i was thinking. i didn't mind the combat as metaphor, just that a lowly earth god could wreck logos. i actually kinda liked the tiger god though, and the idea that it was the manifestation of man's earliest fears. cool idea for a character, but it felt forced in this story, like the writer just needed a reason, however nonsensical, to make sure bp had a big role to play. i *&^%$%$! hate the way t'challa is portrayed in ultimates....

quote:
Yeah, OAA birthing an entire Celestial-Host was pretty damned uber:
http://i.imgur.com/rV45IQX.jpg
...I wonder if that was always OAA's purpose, or if the Never Queen just made it his purpose in order to spawn a new possibility?


i don't think it was ever alluded to in the past, so i'm inclined to think she did it just because she knew the new eternity would need the celestials like the older ones seemed to. though the connection between eternity and the celestials has always been...inconsistent. hell, recall that x-men story where it was suggested the celestials themselves were responsible for creating the multiverse? this at least seems to cement a deeper relationship, something that has been needed for a while imo.

quote:
I was intrigued by the nods to Stan Lee in the Fourth Cosmos' brief description:
http://i.imgur.com/Ohe5xin.jpg
"Pilgrim..."
"True believer..."
"Journeys into mystery..."
*Obviously those excerpts were placed with distinct intent... But why..?


yeah, certainly blatant references, but like you said, why is he missing at all? and "one day he will return"? i wonder what that is referencing....? if we knew, we'd likely understand where he was to begin with. annoys me that i can't figure that out. lol

quote:
**On a somewhat related note: did anyone else notice that the Fifth Cosmos bound/imprisoned/beat the First Firmament...all by itself...with a gesture?:
http://i.imgur.com/HdHet0W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HtwafUx.jpg

...IOW, the other members of the 'Ultimate Ultimates' weren't even needed, lol.


lol i did notice that. it was part of the reason why i said i thought things ended too easily. they all stood and watched as five just wrecked the FF, without even trying.... odd. expected a much bigger battle to ensue and was a little disappointed by how easily he was dispatched.

quote:
Damnation. Great catch, leo! thumb up


lol thanks. curiosity pays off on occasion.

quote:
Even though Ewing's TOAA intro page was super random and felt entirely out of place, it's obvious(now that you've pointed it out, lol) that the dialogue was a very purposeful nod to the Kirby avatar that Waid depicted in F4 #511. Indeed, "THE MYSTERY INTRIGUES ME"...

Waid's page from "Fantastic Four" #511 (2004):
http://i.imgur.com/Uov1zJR.jpg

Ewing's page from "Ultimates 2" #100 (2017):
http://i.imgur.com/Ci81kNx.jpg


(please log in to view the image)

_________________________________________


**I'm just glad that Ewing seems to be of the mind that TOAA = a metatextual representation of Marvel's real world writers/artists. After all, Starlin's recent iteration of TOAA(whom he just called "Above-All-Others", lol) was depicted as a purely fictional character within Marvel's cosmic hierarchy... No 'meta' overtones at all:
http://i.imgur.com/2LApDYE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0WA3sKD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BqW4IwJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XhPVbFa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gPw89wR.jpg

sick [/B]


that scene was phukcing HORRIBLE. wtf is starlin thinking. he literally gone from being one of my fave early writers to a writer that makes me want to throw up. that thanos/hulk series? my 12 year daughter could have done a better job writing that thing. he's a terrible right now, and marvel would do well to completely sever ties with him forever. it's been pretty well established in a few places now that toaa IS the writer, and that is the way it SHOULD be done. hopefully the idea sticks. ewing did a very nice job of subtly reaffirming the idea in that book.

______________________

couple things i didn't hit on earlier:

i thought it was kind of cool seeing the classic ultimates make an appearance. obviously thor's hammer has shown up in unworthy thor, but it was cool seeing the others. maybe felt a little forced, but i think the characters were worth bringing back...

your heart must have broke a little to see maker buy it. lol not convinced he's dead. his role in all of this didn't feel...epic enough to me though. again, feels like ewing needed more time to coax things out--or maybe he needed to play with fewer characters. maker was OK in the series, but given what he is capable of, i'd like to have seen more made of him. he essentially was nothing more than a duped pawn at the end of things. /shrug

the descriptions of the cosmos were interesting:

2--originator of the omega force?? ever heard of it in marvel? the name seems....oddly coincidental given how famous darkseid is.

3--lifebringer one? the first hero? sounds cool. hope someone explores that idea in the future.

5--maker of magic? wonder if that means there was no magic in the previous multiverses... hard to imagine, but maybe.

6--invented science? cool, given this was the reality where taa existed--heavily tech-based, highly advanced. but the junction to everywhere was built in that reality? the nexxus? otherworld? wonder what that reference means...

7--i found this one odd--why would only infinity show up? where is eternity? would have expected the drawing to be half infinity, half eternity. it ALMOST felt like the 7th eternity was ALSO acting as the 8th, but...that makes no sense, right...? confused

infinity's words as she left were interesting as well--EVERYTHING LIVES. huh. feels like an allusion to something that is coming. wonder what. the never queen seems to imply the same. maybe this is just a tool that will allow writers to do pretty much whatever they want with this new marvel. the never queen even referenced WHAT IF at one point. anyway, it feels a bit like hypertime to me.... and THAT can only be awesome....


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Old Post Aug 29th, 2017 07:35 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
hell, recall that x-men story where it was suggested the celestials themselves were responsible for creating the multiverse? this at least seems to cement a deeper relationship, something that has been needed for a while imo.
Per the First Firmament, the detonation of the original Celestials' war-weapons are what shattered him into hundreds of pieces, and essentially created the first multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/1VMqGLd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YjsD3Qp.jpg

So I suppose Ewing still DOES regard them as multiversal architects... In a manner of speaking. stick out tongue

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
i thought it was kind of cool seeing the classic ultimates make an appearance. obviously thor's hammer has shown up in unworthy thor, but it was cool seeing the others. maybe felt a little forced, but i think the characters were worth bringing back...
Forced/rushed as it was, I think it's great that Maker resurrected the original Ultimates roster(fun fact: 'The Ultimates' v1 & v2 from the early/mid 2000s are honestly some of my favorite comic book runs of all time...one of the main reasons I got back into comics again...but I digress.)

Anywho, that's why I was super pissed when Maker killed-off Ult. Cap for the lulz... I effing LOVED Ult. Cap. sad

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
your heart must have broke a little to see maker buy it. lol not convinced he's dead. his role in all of this didn't feel...epic enough to me though. again, feels like ewing needed more time to coax things out--or maybe he needed to play with fewer characters. maker was OK in the series, but given what he is capable of, i'd like to have seen more made of him. he essentially was nothing more than a duped pawn at the end of things. /shrug
Maker definitely isn't dead...he's come back from much worse.

But yeah, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Hickman is the ONLY Marvel writer who should be able to touch Maker, imo. It seems like most other writers tend to use him in a wacky/zany 'mad scientist' capacity for some reason, and I phucking HATE that. Maker is a very complex character with a great deal of depth...but only in the hands of a writer who actually grasps him.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
the descriptions of the cosmos were interesting:

2--originator of the omega force?? ever heard of it in marvel? the name seems....oddly coincidental given how famous darkseid is.

3--lifebringer one? the first hero? sounds cool. hope someone explores that idea in the future.

5--maker of magic? wonder if that means there was no magic in the previous multiverses... hard to imagine, but maybe.

6--invented science? cool, given this was the reality where taa existed--heavily tech-based, highly advanced. but the junction to everywhere was built in that reality? the nexxus? otherworld? wonder what that reference means...

7--i found this one odd--why would only infinity show up? where is eternity? would have expected the drawing to be half infinity, half eternity. it ALMOST felt like the 7th eternity was ALSO acting as the 8th, but...that makes no sense, right...? confused

infinity's words as she left were interesting as well--EVERYTHING LIVES. huh. feels like an allusion to something that is coming. wonder what. the never queen seems to imply the same. maybe this is just a tool that will allow writers to do pretty much whatever they want with this new marvel. the never queen even referenced WHAT IF at one point. anyway, it feels a bit like hypertime to me.... and THAT can only be awesome....
Makes me wonder where all of the multiversal iterations will go now that they're part of the mainstream infinitude/cosmology..? Makes me wonder where they are keeping the First Firmament imprisoned..? And it REEEALLY makes me wonder where the f*ck Owen Reece is..? The dude is probably just chilling in another quasi-reality outside creation playing with his toys, lol.

Imo, Owen's 'status'(ie. TOAA-ish) is one of the better things to come from this Ultimates series. I've never been a fan of his before, but I dig that little f*cker now. laughing out loud


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Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 30th, 2017 at 02:18 AM

Old Post Aug 30th, 2017 02:04 AM
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eaebiakuya
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Maker is not dead, because the maker who died there was just a "mirror" of the real Maker who was trapped inside the Earth with the damn shield.

About the "Maker of Magic" well...in New Avengers, Ewing used a Demon from the 4th universe. It seens to be a magical being.

Old Post Sep 2nd, 2017 04:33 PM
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