Warp speed is actually allowed in physics,you never actually surpass the speed of light.The space/time continuum contracts in front of you and expands behind you.Making a long trip(say 5 light years)take only hours,if you have the near infinite power to pull it off.Superman,theSurfer ,Gladiator,ect. all have the power to do this.
Another thing in theoretical physics(worm holes)It would indeed get you from the milky way galaxy to the andromdea galaxy in a few short minutes.But you would need something called exotic matter to keep it open(it`s just a fancy word for anti-matter).Kip Thorne came up with this idea,and even he doubts it would work.Feedback cosmic radiation or nature it self might prevent this from happening.Any worm hole is a time machine capable of taking you back in time,but only till the date it was created.But again this violates causality.Because you can now change past events from the date it was made.Unless you somehow get shifted to an alternate universeJust wanted to say the truth about worm holes.As far as comics go it is a great tool for galaxy hopping!
Only what the writer portrays is what exists. Pretending that Superman exists and actually flown through space for 60 days (by saying "we don't know how he did it") is simply called making stuff up. Not only does flying for 60 days overrules shortcuts but the writer not mentioning a shortcut overrules it. Now you are starting to troll too? Geez
Yeah Abhi was wrong on that. But that is what can be deduced from the comic of what happened. So basically, it becomes semantics really.
So you are confirming what I said. Superman noticed the black hole has the ability to cure him by him seeing it cure him.
He didn't jump through ANY of the black holes, except the first. You are begging the question Carver. He went through 2 black holes total. One was to trapped Braniac (causing Superman to get flung away) and the 2nd to basically cure himself.
These characters don't exist.
None of this stuff ever happened.
There is no such notion as "We don't know how it was achieved" since it was achieved exactly how the writer portrayed it to be. Any extra information that the writer hasn't shown or portrayed simply doesn't exist. This is a fact. Speculating that it could possibly exists is called making stuff up and is a variation of trolling.
Superman didn't use black holes to assist in transportation since the writer never portrayed it. Superman saw the first black hole curing him and speculated that black holes cured him. This is simple logic.
Surfer's first appearance was him traveling on a nova that took him light years in the time it took the F4 to have an Earth adventure. http://i60.tinypic.com/1176vmg.jpg
And his most famous speed feat ever was traveling a light year in a second.
I don't think I actually need to post that.
Not to mention all the times he traveled for hours or days or weeks throughout the universe to very very far locations. Hyperspace would have made the time irrelevant.
Hell, he traveled to Zenn La unaided which was 6000 light years away in at the most a couple hours (He traveled back far faster too)
A couple internet bios don't change what has happened in the actual comics. Surfer uses hyperspace to travel like halfway across creation. His application of hyperspace doesn't negate his actual feats however. And neither does ****ing Marvel.com
Also, when you honestly believe everyone needs hyperspace to fly faster than light except Superman, I don't think you can act like the opposition doesn't like it, and therefore that's fact enough.
Once again, its also stated incessantly amongst the faster than light characters. Even on several Surfer scans in this very thread. It's in the handbooks, the Marvel.com and Marvunapp that anything faster than lightspeed entered hyperspace. It's listed explicitly next to every ftl character, or nearly so.
Just because it's not told explicitly every single time in the comic, doesn't mean anything. Narration doesn't explain Thor shooting lightning every time either. Or Flash using speedforce for FTL travel. OR GL using hyperspace to travel. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Des...403105.jpg.html
You see, this isn't the case of the bios and glossary contradicting evidence as you'd like anyone to believe, but rather agreeing with what has been written on panel.
The same logic does not apply to Superman but instead follow the Super faithful down this slippery road where they twist and turn one piece of information and dismiss every other piece of evidence that contradicts their crappy theory.
So what you're essentially saying is that you're ignoring literally statements of things going faster than light because of one comic scan and online bios?
That's like using a scan of... actually, I have a sig of what that's like. One statement overrides actual proof apparently. Superman's power will never extend past destroying a planet no matter what he ever does. I'm sure a bio reinforces this somewhere I can twist around.
lol at you circling a Marvel.com bio though. That site's a huge joke, and I haven't seen anyone seriously argue for that site since I joined the forum.
You have ONE COMIC SCAN that's an actual bio where I just posted multiple scans of things surpassing lightspeed in the actual comics and not just a retelling of his powers. Surfer even did it in a fight.
Also, saying it's possible to travel faster than lightspeed in hyperspace doesn't make it law that it's impossible to exceed it in normal space, as we've seen in the comics. In your Marvel wiki link.
The Marvel.com doesn't make something fact. Also it says he has limited telepathic abilities... the guy brought about world peace with his telepathy. Limited
Apparently comics can't override bio according to you? I didn't realize you joined CBR in your KMC absence.
Also, your comic scan that's really a bio only says what hyperspace does. It shrinks the distance between objects. It binds us, it doesn't mention it binds Surfer, and considering we know for a fact unless we look at bios that it doesn't bind Surfer... it clearly doesn't bind Surfer. Englehart trying to easily explain Surfer's power in a page isn't absolute for everything he does.
That was also written by Steve Englehart when he was pissed off at Marvel and was doing whatever he wanted to piss off the company. Hence the S.F.X. tag. Same year too prior to his no interference deal with Marvel. http://www.steveenglehart.com/comic...%20322-325.html http://www.steveenglehart.com/Comic...er%2022-24.html
The funny thing is, that I can't even disprove you because I'll be using actual events that happen in comics, and I can't be assed enough to look for an actual bio. This isn't even KMC forums in its early stages where bios trump all and no one has scans. This is a bio trumping all scans. Does that sound right to you? Should I just go into threads from now on, find a bio that agrees with a comic scan that is clearly not the case all the time and just close my ears and keep reposting bios or something? Is this the new way to fact check comics?
I don't even know why I'm trying to argue with bios. Well, ****, I might as well post Surfer clearly not using hyperspace to travel a light year in seconds because what else is there to really say? http://media.animevice.com/uploads/...ntlet_03_36.jpg
Does that mean that never happened then? I'd enjoy your take of the scene please.
Come on Juntai. Are you pretty proud of what you're using to argue as proof here?
Not even going into the "Superman is the only character that can fly faster than light" thing you got going on. But are you pretty proud of relying solely on bios to disprove many things that happen in the comics themselves?
I agree with Bran to a degree. I believe some writers wrote Surfer to exceed light speed without having to go through hyperspace. But what Juntai is basically arguing is that that one comic gives a retcon. So all instances of Surfer going faster than light speed without seeming entering light speed is indeed him entering hyperspace to achieve faster than light speed. I don't know the rules of retcons anyway. Can one writer retcon every instance, especially when we know the other writers meant differently?
What does it matter anyway since it is equivalent to him achieving faster than light speed without the aid of hyperspace. Does hyperspace even hurt Surfer in the slightest? He can still run into normal shit that's in space while traveling in hyperspace. I don't see what the big deal is really. Semantics to me.
I didn't circle it. That's from someone in this thread.
You're right, the laws of motion physics don't bind him. But I wonder why?
The difference is that it's scans, bios, handbooks, marvunapp, all corroborating in suggesting one thing, and you suggesting another just because it doesn't explicitly spell it out for you every single time.
If you'd really like, I could grab more that aren't surfer showing a ton of characters and even ships needing to jump to hyperspace to go ftl also? Or maybe a dozen of them of Surfer or narration saying he can't go FTL? But only if you feel it'll make a difference more than the material already in discussion.
You see, showing some scans where it isn't explicitly mentioned doesn't undo the fact that it's written into his character in the comics, in his official bio, and into the laws of the Marvel U.
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Last edited by Juntai on Mar 30th, 2015 at 04:54 AM
Even if we take everything you just said for fact, you are still ignoring things and Surfer traveling faster than light. Like that's all there is to it. You are still continuing while blatantly ignoring actual proof. In fact when faced with such proof you wouldn't even acknowledge any proof of their existance. Yet you shove bios in my face with circles around them.
I never denied Surfer's use of hyperspace either. In fact I even said it. There's only two relevant scans that you actually posted.
The first being the first scan you posted. Which seems entirely like flowery language for space. Reinforced by a week passing while he's only crossing the galaxy. You yourself made note in one of your scans that they could be across the entire universe immediately after they entered. Made even better by him saying he's going to ride the solar winds.
Because that's what hyperspace does. It cuts the time into seconds. You're going to tell me that Surfer entered hyperspace and it took him a week to traverse a galaxy?
Like I said though, just seems like flowery language for space. Otherwise it defeats the entire purpose.
And here's the next page: http://i58.tinypic.com/34ir1nt.jpg
"As he surfs the black abyss"
The next relevant scan is of you saying he's doing casual surfing in hyperspace. It absolutely doesn't say he's actually traveling along hyperspace. He feels something going through all of hyperspace. That's a sensing feat, that's all. You might as well be arguing Sue travels through hyperspace when she accesses her powers.
Surfer can feel things in hyperspace without being in hyperspace. http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bi...199439.jpg.html http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bi...199440.jpg.html
Now, I'm not sure what you thought your actual point was with these scans as what the end of your post seems to just think that by hyperspace existing, that you must be right?
I never said Surfer can't enter hyperspace, and I already said he uses it to travel halfway across creation in a very very short time. It's just that you're ignoring that he can travel faster than light, as it's happened. Go ahead and show some low feats of his speed though if it appeases you. God knows you're not above stretching that far. Oh and also.
The context of that scan is that they traveled galaxies away in a very short amount of time all the way to Galactus' ship.
They might be on the other side of the universe. Speaks for itself really. That's not simply faster than light, that's like billions of times faster.
That's him traveling through wormholes and going so fast he screws with time and space. He also emerges on the other side of the universe.
That's debatable if that's even hyperspace as they see all the galaxies streak past them. Your own bio that you've repeatedly pepper throughout this page literally says hyperspace is a nexus in space. Your bio also goes against the two scans addressed.
The context here is that Surfer was traveling along space normally to Zenn La from other systems. Which as you know would take light many years. As soon as he actually used hyperspace he traveled there instantly. That's actually a good point Juntai. Thanks for bringing that up. I'll post some scans showing him traveling to Zenn La which was light years from where ever he was, in a completely normal way. Which would have taken him years and years if he was limited to light speed. http://s118.photobucket.com/user/bi...d13-14.jpg.html http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/...imited13-15.jpg
And since you already showed the scan of him receiving news that the universe depends on his arrival, and that's the reason why he used hyperspace, I'll show when he arrives, which is like seconds. http://i61.tinypic.com/aoqmv8.jpg
So basically, Surfer was traveling to Zenn La without hyperspace in that issue, which would have put him at many times the speed of light no matter where he was, and then arrived there instantly with hyperspace. Hyperspace >>> his speed, but it still shows Surfer is confident enough in his speed to traverse like galaxies without it. Glad you brought this issue up Jun.
Now, I'm going to be honest, but I think "hyperspace" was just a word Stan Lee threw in there to seem cool. That's purely based on Mephisto tracking him through hyperspace though.
Even if, he traveled from Zenn La to Earth in like a minute.
I don't get how Surfer traveling near light speed says anything. I don't think even you're disputing he can travel at light speed, so how is that scan supposed to prove anything? He didn't even open the tunnel and accelerated to near light speed nigh instantly.
That's not even hyperspace either, Beta Ray threw a marble sized black hole through the same thing and it got sent to at least a million light years away from anything with an atom. Which is quite far. http://i58.tinypic.com/21bsw40.jpg
So what you just posted was Surfer basically instantly exited a portal at near light speed.
Now, onto my actual point with all of this. If everything was hyperspace like you said in what I replied to, you basically have instantaneous travel. You showed him crossing the universe, light years, at least 38 light minutes, 6000 light years, half a million light years, galaxies, and what may have been halfway across the universe either instantly, or in seconds.
So if we accept all that for fact, then how can this scan make sense when it takes Surfer a week to travel the galaxy in "hyperspace"? http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-3939088/
Like I said, flowery language. But I've already said my piece on that one. It just seems like the writer completely missed the point. The only use it would be in that situation is to be called hyperspace... while he says he's riding the solar winds.
But this is all irrelevant anyway, since you are still ignoring scans of Surfer and other beings and things exceeding light speed. The only basis you have to combat that is editable bios, and you keep referring to a site that when unabbreviated is The Marvel Unofficial Appendix
I'm not saying Surfer can't surpass lightspeed, I'm saying when he does it he enters hyperspace, which is clearly written into his character, and clearly written into the in comic scans of it, summaries of his powers, handbook bios/marvel.com/marunapp[which while translated to unofficial appendix, is written by the official handbook people, and the official handbook guides you to it and is a sponsored site for all handbook mistakes.] And written into the laws of physics of the Marvel Universe as a whole.
All of these are corroborating to paint a very clear picture.
If they were all contradicting, we might have something to talk about.
And you've got . .. I think he's just trying to be flowery?
And you're right, he's not always insta-traversing with it, but that is actually accounted for in the definition of hyperspace too.
So you've proven nothing again. Great.
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Last edited by Juntai on Mar 30th, 2015 at 11:43 AM
This thread is still going on? anyway at this point im taking juntais word with a grain of salt, since he's essentially arguing that no comic superhero can ever move faster than light, the best they do is enter hyperspace, that alone is clear BS.
Not any, just Marvel has this stance as a company. The mounted facts and evidence from all sources, (2 of Marvels sites, handbooks, in issue power summary, dozens of actual scans in practice, etc )all telling the same story don't require your belief in them to be true.
You can always go with the "the writers handbooks bios narration and characters are just trying to be flowery" approach to denial with Bran.
__________________
I am God's mighty fist. I am God's strength made manifest.
Sig by: Skeets, S.S, thesilverspider, Sir SKEETS Alot
I once intentionally wrote that Jubilee had been stated to be an omega level mutant or some shit, and then a member on KMC kept trying to use it as proof later, claiming that he just couldn't remember which comic it was from
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