KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Misc » TV Talk Forum » Breaking Bad

Breaking Bad
Started by: Darth Vicious

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (29): « First ... « 2 3 [4] 5 6 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Darth Vicious
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Isla De La Muerte

I feel Jesse is regressing to the Jesse we saw at the beginning of season 4. Neither of them could predict that Todd was going to shoot the kid. I know he's torn for seeing it happened but in the end is collateral damage of the business he chose. He is being a *****.


__________________

"A lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths." Deep Throat.

Old Post Aug 13th, 2013 03:24 PM
Darth Vicious is currently offline Click here to Send Darth Vicious a Private Message Find more posts by Darth Vicious Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

He was small time and even though the lure of pure product was there there was no way of predicting how messed up things were gonna get.
He has morals and those surrounding him clearly don't. He seemed to be viewing Badger and Skinny Pete as the days he longed to return to when things were fun and simple and clearly felt seperate from their (and his old) world.

I get the feeling that he has been connecting more and more together in his mind. How long before he connects Brock, Jane the plane crash and the rest of the total destruction with the death of Mike, his posse etc etc and sees that Walt is basically the centerpoint..? From his reaction in the scene with him and Walt, I'd say that that process is well underway.
His eyes are open and he sees Walt for who he is:
The new Gus.


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Old Post Aug 13th, 2013 04:50 PM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheGodKiller02
True Killer

Gender: Male
Location: Hunting with wolves

The plane crash had nothing to do with Walt...

And Walt isn't the new Gus. Not even close. As Mike said, "Just because you shot Jesse James, don't make you Jesse James".


__________________

Last edited by TheGodKiller02 on Aug 13th, 2013 at 06:06 PM

Old Post Aug 13th, 2013 06:00 PM
TheGodKiller02 is currently offline Click here to Send TheGodKiller02 a Private Message Find more posts by TheGodKiller02 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Darth Vicious
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Isla De La Muerte

I find interesting the way the stoners detailed recollection of the tv show while they were high. Same can be said for Jesse. He was high when Walt passed by and he could see through his lies.

Jesse connecting the dots on Brock is plausible but not Jane. He was out of it when it happened and iirc Walt hasn't mentioned anything about it. I don't think he told anyone either, unless he told Saul and I can't remember.


__________________

"A lie, Mr. Mulder, is most convincingly hidden between two truths." Deep Throat.

Old Post Aug 13th, 2013 07:03 PM
Darth Vicious is currently offline Click here to Send Darth Vicious a Private Message Find more posts by Darth Vicious Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The plane crash had nothing to do with Walt...

And Walt isn't the new Gus. Not even close. As Mike said, "Just because you shot Jesse James, don't make you Jesse James".


It did. He let Jane die. Jane's Dad (grieving) f**ked up in his traffic control job and the plane (wayfarer 515) bought the big one along with everyone on board when the grieving dad's very understandable distraction put it slamming into a charter plane, destroying both planes..it wouldn't have happened if Walt hadn't let her die.
http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Wayfarer_515

He is acting like him, using the same methods like his dealing with Lydia in the carwash mirroring Gus' brushing all discussion off with coverjob related lines.
Lydia: "Walt, they're not gonna accept this inferior product at 60 odd percent...you're putting me in a box"
Walt: (ultra politely) "Your car will be ready in 45 mins, can I interest you in an air freshener" etc etc (paraphrasing, of course)

He fancies himself as the new Gus and is emulating him as best as possible in this and other regards.


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Last edited by Sadako of Girth on Aug 14th, 2013 at 11:38 PM

Old Post Aug 14th, 2013 11:31 PM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
Fegelien!

Gender: Male
Location:

Acting like Gus to communicate that he is no longer in the same business as Gus.


__________________
Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

Old Post Aug 15th, 2013 04:38 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

He THINKS hes not in it anymore.

"Just when you think you're out...." etc


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Old Post Aug 15th, 2013 04:30 PM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheGodKiller02
True Killer

Gender: Male
Location: Hunting with wolves

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
It did. He let Jane die. Jane's Dad (grieving) f**ked up in his traffic control job and the plane (wayfarer 515) bought the big one along with everyone on board when the grieving dad's very understandable distraction put it slamming into a charter plane, destroying both planes..it wouldn't have happened if Walt hadn't let her die.
http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Wayfarer_515

He is acting like him, using the same methods like his dealing with Lydia in the carwash mirroring Gus' brushing all discussion off with coverjob related lines.
Lydia: "Walt, they're not gonna accept this inferior product at 60 odd percent...you're putting me in a box"
Walt: (ultra politely) "Your car will be ready in 45 mins, can I interest you in an air freshener" etc etc (paraphrasing, of course)

He fancies himself as the new Gus and is emulating him as best as possible in this and other regards.

Nope, the plane crash itself is the responsibility of the concerned authorities that phucked up by letting a grieving father return to his job. Walt's guilt stops at Jane and Jane alone.

Yes, and that doesn't make him the new Gus. Like, at all. Gus, for one, was an actual professional, unlike Walt who's just an egotistical douchebag. And there are other moments of badassery which Gus showcases in the series which Walter wouldn't begin to approach to be able to copy-cat.

As I said before, Mike put it best:"Just because you shot Jesse James don't make you Jesse James". That much is an indisputable fact at this point.


__________________

Old Post Aug 15th, 2013 05:34 PM
TheGodKiller02 is currently offline Click here to Send TheGodKiller02 a Private Message Find more posts by TheGodKiller02 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

Well whilst you're going to those lengths to divert blame onto those who were not directly involved, why not make it the fault of the air plane manufacturer, or the passengers themselves, or the wright brothers..? Are you saying that the air authorities had future knowledge of what would happen if the Dad had returned to work and let him anyhow?
Cause and effect are what you ignore. What happened happened, and if Walt had saved Jane, all those people on those planes would have lived. Fact. Ergo: Walt's decision impacted on the lives of those passengers.



Right. You're preaching to the converted but Walt's ego would most likely disagree. Walt'll be allowed out of the game when the european conglomerate SAY he can leave the game.
"Just when you think you're out, they pull you back in."


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Last edited by Sadako of Girth on Aug 16th, 2013 at 08:54 AM

Old Post Aug 16th, 2013 08:49 AM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheGodKiller02
True Killer

Gender: Male
Location: Hunting with wolves

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well whilst you're going to those lengths to divert blame onto those who were not directly involved, why not make it the fault of the air plane manufacturer, or the passengers themselves, or the wright brothers..? Are you saying that the air authorities had future knowledge of what would happen if the Dad had returned to work and let him anyhow?
Cause and effect are what you ignore. What happened happened, and if Walt had saved Jane, all those people on those planes would have lived. Fact. Ergo: Walt's decision impacted on the lives of those passengers.



Right. You're preaching to the converted but Walt's ego would most likely disagree. Walt'll be allowed out of the game when the european conglomerate SAY he can leave the game.
"Just when you think you're out, they pull you back in."

Non-sequiter. The authorities were clearly aware that Don Margolis had just recently lost his only daughter, and in retrospect it would have been highly unwise to allow him to return to his job. The news reporting agencies within the fictional world of the show even make note of this fact. Walt's guilt only stops at Jane. He wasn't responsible for the lack of foresight which the air traffic agencies demonstrated by allowing a grieving father to return so soon to work.

Walt's ego is just that: Walt's ego. He had to manipulate Jesse by [SPOILER - highlight to read]: poisoning Brock so that he could have a shot at Gus. He never really stood a chance against the REAL PROFESSIONAL who was actually willing to let him go because of Jesse.

Walt is no Gus. For all his faux badass "authoritative" charade, despite all the mindless killer instinct, he'll never be Gus. Gus was the real kingpin. Walt has, and will always be, just the cook. And a highly unprofessional one at that.


__________________

Old Post Aug 16th, 2013 10:55 AM
TheGodKiller02 is currently offline Click here to Send TheGodKiller02 a Private Message Find more posts by TheGodKiller02 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

Actually its a follws sequence in classic fashion.
Jane lays dying on meth that Walt made, walt had chance to intervene and save her, but due to her attempt to oppose him and blackmail him, he let her die, the dad was distraught, and fu*ked up therefore at work killing like 200 people.
Distinct cause and effect/chain of events.
With respect, your proposed 'coulda woulda shouldas' mean nothing. What happened happened.
Walt was massively involved in her death and the consequences of it. Attempts on blaming the grieving dad's employers are meaningless.

At least you agree that he is attempting to emulate him.


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Old Post Aug 16th, 2013 02:49 PM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheGodKiller02
True Killer

Gender: Male
Location: Hunting with wolves

Once again: Walt's guilt stops at Jane. What happened in the plane crash afterwards had mutiple other factors involved which you can't just conveniently dismiss as 'coulda woulda shouldas'. The air traffic agencies fucked by letting a grieving father return to work so early.

Him emulating Gus doesn't necessarily mean that he has become the new Gus. Gus was in a league of his own. Simply put, Walt will never belong in that league, no matter what he does and how he does it.


__________________

Old Post Aug 17th, 2013 03:56 AM
TheGodKiller02 is currently offline Click here to Send TheGodKiller02 a Private Message Find more posts by TheGodKiller02 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

Cause and effect. Other elements were not as significant as the Walt element.
Some people return to work to attempt to stay focused on routine in such times. You say that, but still they did, and he in the state of grief over the daughter that Walt let die caused the crash.
The only thing that matters.

And Gus could never cook...Walt was doing both roles last season.


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Old Post Aug 17th, 2013 06:57 AM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
Fegelien!

Gender: Male
Location:

The airline is responsible for allowing Donald back to work, Donald's responsible for deciding to come back to work, Jesse's responsible for straying Jane back to drugs, Jane's responsible for the lifestyle choices she made that led her to that scenario, Walt is guilty for letting her die, and the manufacturer of the heroin is responsible for producing that heroin.


These are the factors of blame, but none are guilty. There is literally no one guilty of "causing" that plane crash. Only contributors in the chain of events that caused it. You could literally "blame" everything in existence for it, via the Butterfly Effect, but that makes no sense. But being guilty and feeling guilty are two different things. And someone understanding their role in it, and realizing the part in the chain they played, is totally valid and excusable.

The only thing that Walter is guilt of, regarding that situation, is purposefully allowing someone to die. As a measure of morality and guilt, that's an entirely separate issue.


__________________
Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

Old Post Aug 17th, 2013 07:38 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Gus was in a league of his own. Simply put, Walt will never belong in that league, no matter what he does and how he does it.


What do you mean by this? Walt seems to be every bit as ruthless and intelligent as Gus.

Old Post Aug 17th, 2013 07:38 AM
ares834 is currently offline Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
Fegelien!

Gender: Male
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
What do you mean by this? Walt seems to be every bit as ruthless and intelligent as Gus.
Gus didn't have a family that tended to complicate things. Probably made it easier for Gus to be a Gus.


__________________
Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

Old Post Aug 17th, 2013 07:46 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheGodKiller02
True Killer

Gender: Male
Location: Hunting with wolves

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Cause and effect. Other elements were not as significant as the Walt element.
Some people return to work to attempt to stay focused on routine in such times. You say that, but still they did, and he in the state of grief over the daughter that Walt let die caused the crash.
The only thing that matters.

And Gus could never cook...Walt was doing both roles last season.

As Lucien put it:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The airline is responsible for allowing Donald back to work, Donald's responsible for deciding to come back to work, Jesse's responsible for straying Jane back to drugs, Jane's responsible for the lifestyle choices she made that led her to that scenario, Walt is guilty for letting her die, and the manufacturer of the heroin is responsible for producing that heroin.


These are the factors of blame, but none are guilty. There is literally no one guilty of "causing" that plane crash. Only contributors in the chain of events that caused it. You could literally "blame" everything in existence for it, via the Butterfly Effect, but that makes no sense. But being guilty and feeling guilty are two different things. And someone understanding their role in it, and realizing the part in the chain they played, is totally valid and excusable.

The only thing that Walter is guilt of, regarding that situation, is purposefully allowing someone to die. As a measure of morality and guilt, that's an entirely separate issue.

Which is pretty much what I have said: that Walt's guilt stops at Jane and Jane alone.

Walt did so with Mike's help. Gus had to build himself up after Don Eladio turned him into a glorified trophy hound. Walt can never be Gus.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
What do you mean by this? Walt seems to be every bit as ruthless and intelligent as Gus.

He lacks Gus' class and sheer badassery.


__________________

Old Post Aug 17th, 2013 05:00 PM
TheGodKiller02 is currently offline Click here to Send TheGodKiller02 a Private Message Find more posts by TheGodKiller02 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Sadako of Girth
Extreme Mode

Gender: Male
Location: McClane's Right one

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
As Lucien put it:

Which is pretty much what I have said: that Walt's guilt stops at Jane and Jane alone.


"Walt was second handedly responsible for this incident because of his second hand involvement in the death of Jane. This ultimately culminated the results of Donald Margolis feeling grief-stricken and accidentally giving wrong instructions for the incident to occur."
http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Wayfarer_515

"The second season ends with Donald, an air traffic controller, making a mistake at his job due to his despair over Jane's death. From his home, Walter watches two commercial airplanes crash into each other, unaware that he is indirectly responsible for it."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_White_(Breaking_Bad)

Vince Gilligan agrees with me:

"So what's the point of the ending, in your mind? Why is judgment falling from the sky onto Walt?

In simple terms, we just wanted a giant moment of showmanship to end the season. And what better way than to have a rain of fire coming down around our protagnoist's ears, sort of like the judgment of God? It seemed like a big showmanship moment, and to visualize, in one fell swoop, all the terrible grief that Walt has wrought upon his loved ones, and the community at large.

And it could seem like a deus ex machina moment, but of course Walt has created that moment by letting Jane die and sending her father over the edge.

In that moment, at the end of season two, he doesn't realize it, but he's responsible for the whole world figuratively coming to an end around him. It's not deus ex machina, there's another term we were talking about, Lucifer ex machina, "Devil from the machine" -- it's the opposite. It almost could feel kind of random, but it's not. It's a butterfly effect. All these gears have been turning, this particular outcome was stuff Walt put into motion a long time ago by choosing to cook crystal meth."

http://sepinwall.blogspot.co.uk/200...ligan-post.html


quote:

Walt did so with Mike's help.

And Mike used to work for Gus.

quote:

He lacks Gus' class and sheer badassery.

Incorrect again, good sir.







quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
What do you mean by this? Walt seems to be every bit as ruthless and intelligent as Gus.


Goddamned right.


__________________



"Van Zan is the Pinocchio of feces." - Lestov16

Last edited by Sadako of Girth on Aug 17th, 2013 at 06:40 PM

Old Post Aug 17th, 2013 06:30 PM
Sadako of Girth is currently offline Click here to Send Sadako of Girth a Private Message Find more posts by Sadako of Girth Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
super pr*xy
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Daily Planet

walt made gus very reckless.. walt can act as a badass as much as he wants but he is just a school teacher/car wash owner/good-ass meth cook.. walt has no business in the drug world.. he can't run it like gus did.. gus wasn't even in the dea's radar until Salamanca blew half his face off.. walt got busted by a copy of "leaves of grass" which was given by the same guy whose death is being investigated by his brother-in-law..


__________________

Old Post Aug 18th, 2013 12:02 AM
super pr*xy is currently offline Click here to Send super pr*xy a Private Message Find more posts by super pr*xy Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Gender: Male
Location: United States

Saying Walt is just a "school teach" is like calling Gus just a "fast food chain owner" it's utterly absurd.

Yes, Walt's operation wasn't as grand as Gus's but then the guy has only been around for less than a year! Plus he didn't have the Cartel's backing.

Old Post Aug 18th, 2013 03:41 AM
ares834 is currently offline Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 09:59 AM.
Pages (29): « First ... « 2 3 [4] 5 6 » ... Last »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Misc » TV Talk Forum » Breaking Bad

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.