Yep. People seem to think that old people being able to use the force to remain fit is the rule and not the exception, and this is not the case. The like of Vader and Old Ben are as slow as their physical condition, force or no force, and George has onfirmed this multiple times. Not every old force user is a count dooku or yoda, who are not only great force users but have trained extensively in this use of the force. Vader is a shadow of his former self, his mech suit is far more hindrance than simply just frail bpody, and he didnt really rtrain extensively on his force speed, instead focusing on strength. The vader we see in originl trilogy is hiow slow he really is.
So among the powerful Jedis and Siths hes among the weaker ones with a saber, and somebody like Bane would be able to blitz him.
TUF events are of questionable canon, TUF feats and pwoers are of definite N canon status, as it is a videogame that was designed to show the forc ein a unrealstic ways and the developers have stated that they was exaggerated, much like clone wars cartoon. Almost every character that appears in other media is shown doing stuffs they can never do outside of it.
Also, it's been well documented that Vader is slow as molasses - he's not as fast as his Pre-suit self; not as fast as RotJ Luke, and not as fast as Yoda.
So you're saying he is as fast as RotS Anakin, RotJ Luke (who blitzed him) and as fast as Yoda?
Where has that been shown?
- Yeah, in Force ability, Moron.
He was weighed down by armor that weighed hundreds of Lbs, you Idiot.
That's only in the alternate dark side ending, which is of course not canon. It is however a valid alternate version of events which Starkiller has seen in visions.
It's not from Dark Lord. The quote was from a different book, had a different Roan and was from the perspective of Ferus Olin.
Anyway, once again I don't think Vader will beat Bane. And certainly not in sabers but at the same time I don't see him getting stomped and certainly not blitzed.
Even if you guys wanted to use all the stuff from tfu and the other stuff that he couldnt do in the movies, at best you can argue that vader beats him in just one areA - TELKINESIS, BUT EVen that is doubtful and at very least bane will rival him. However, bane on the other hand has extreme speed feats, can use force storm, not to mention the sith sorcery he apparently uses in the third book. and this is when we cripple bane without orbaliskjs. So how does vader, who by comparison is basically a one trick pony, comapres in the lsightest?
Okay, enough is enough. STOP DEBATING THE CANONOCITY OF TFU AND STAY ON TOPIC. If you are citing Vader's feats, realize that TFU is meant to be greatly exaggerated in terms of Force capabilities, and not just for Starkiller. So, from here on, no more debating that point.
For what it's worth (and it's worth a lot, I know), I personally find TFU's powers to be out of place with higher canon. But then I think that about anything bar the films and the 3D series.
That said, canon is canon and inconsistencies among feats is an enduring problem for this franchise.
If you question/disagree with what I posted, Dumbass, it means you take the opposite position of my statement.
So I say, he's not as fast as Anakin, Yoda, etc - and you ask where that's been shown, showcasing either that you haven't watched the trilogies, or you're just a complete idiot.
You learn to read.
Oh, **** - what a stretch - using a combat-related feat to demonstrate my point about Luke's speed in a duel.
Yes, stupid ****, I'm really using the scene of where Luke blitzed Vader in a duel - to exemplify Luke being faster than Vader in a duel.
Are you in a room with enough oxygen to supply your brain - or do you need to move to a more-ventilated room?
If you got a laptop - take it outside in the fresh air, and type out there.
But it does make him slower than Bane, which is crucial here.
Dumbass.
Vader's armor weighed him down so much - that he needed to use the Force constantly - just to merely move.
This means Vader relying on exerting TK on himself almost constantly.
So he's always weighed down, and never at "full strength" because of his body and the armor over it.
So when he's constantly exerting Force energy just to do regular things that say, Obi-wan or Luke, wouldn't need to exert any Force power to do - Vader needs needs it just to walk - let alone run or blitz anyone.
Thanks to that predicament - he would rarely ever be at "full strength".
This is especially worse for Vader, if the theory about many of his Midichlorians being burned out after Mustafar are true - because then he would have even less "organs" to draw the Force through - thus making his constant strain of Force-usage even more taxing.
So unfortunately for Vader - being 80% of Sidious, doesn't do jack for his speed - because of his taxing and cumbersome situation.
The core of Vader's body - was Flesh.
That means, weakened, burned, flesh and muscles, straining to constantly lift up limbs and armor, made of metal that weighed hundreds of Lbs.
So then the Force is utilized almost constantly to make this work, draining him.
- Grievous' body on the other hand, is a metallic-frame, with a brain, and a gut-sack.
- But, the core frame, is metal - so when arms and legs move, all the stress and strain is directed to the center, which is just as durable and strong, naturally, as the limbs moving under it's power.
So when Grievous' frame, because of it's design and composition, is perfectly capable of moving under it's own power, without strain or stress to itself in the process - and more importantly, no strain to Grievous's muscles (unlike Vader) because he has none - then he's essentially free to move as fast as he wants, because his, essentially, metal-body, will never tire.
Add to the fact that Grievous' arms (unlike Vader's) are designed to move cyclically and spin at incredible speeds (generating the 26 swings per second).
Vader's body is essentially weighed down - making him incapable of moving at pure speeds as great as Zonakin or Yoda - and constantly draining himself of the Force, just to be able to move under his own power.
Grievous, for obvious reasons, is not bound to these stipulations, and is a different can of worms (no pun intended) altogether.
__________________ Originally posted by Arhael Okay, look. Um, me feels no agenda to meeting and vacuum in leadership position, so me has composed 12 point plan for good happy success.
Ares has provided a credible argument against the myth of Vader's lethargy; TFU's novelization also has a scene wherein, during the final battle, Starkiller is astonished by Vader's speed. He may or may not be faster than Bane, but there you are.
Registered: Oct 2012
Location: On my Flagship, The Eclipse
The only problem is in the movies, Vader never tries. Against Obi-Wan, he wants to show off how in control he is. Against Luke, he doesn't want to kill his son. Even the second time, he doesn't want to kill Luke. If he did, he could easily TK Luke. The only times we see of him try is in the EU, where everything is exaggerated.
__________________ What is it that you fear to face? Or even worse: fear to remember...
Nov 29th, 2012 01:26 PM
