If Thor's greatest quantifiable strength feat is even on par with All-Star Superman's (which I doubt it would be), that would put his best lifted weight at 3% of current Superman 's.
Yet the difference would be far greater than that, as 6 sextillion tons was light enough to be bench-pressed for 5 days, as opposed to once, and the limits of the machine were high enough make the planet implode on itself(which must be insanely high if being set to 6 sextillion tons was not high enough to do so), if Dr. Veritas turned it up to find Superman's limit.
It's DCnu's biggest to date- but they're only a year of issues in, and have largely been 'Year One' stories set in the past , but Superman has a lot of stuff post crisis.
GL created a harness and he pulled the planet. Lifted the moon back into position as it was on collision course with Earth. Moved the moon/planets on nearly a dozen occasions. Pounding his fist on the JLA Moonbase nearly sent it out of orbit, while he was having trouble controlling his power. He outright stated in battles at least 3 seperate occasions that the casual punches he was throwing could crack planets or moons [and even hinted that it wasn't his mightiest blows], told us in a scan I posted earlier in the thread that he was capable of bench-pressing the Earth. Held a small Black Hole [noting the gravity] in his hand. A blast of heat vision provided enough energy to move a planet 6 times larger than Earth -- while under a red sun. And tons of other stuff I'm not even thinking of at the moment.
His 'big' feats become the hard/impossible to quantify of mythic status; The Maggeddon feat. The Infinite Book, carrying The Bleed, etc,
People like to think some of the stuff is hyperbole, but when he says it and does it, it kind of throws it out of the window, and makes it clearly writers intention.
He almost hardly belongs in the 'high herald' bracket, because his 'average' is their all time highs. And his higher feats often involve him blatantly overpowering/toe-to-toeing w/ skyfathers/abstracts and shit. [Dominus/Imperiex/Blaze/Cythonna/Doomsday/Darkseid, etc]
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Last edited by Juntai on Dec 17th, 2012 at 12:27 AM
When you can show any high Herald punching each other, melting Heralds within the vicintity, holla at me. That ain't happening bro, sorry. Superman is strong but not Hulk strong and lol at average. The weakest of Hulks was pulling off planetary strength and maxing out test and being marked as having unlimited strength. Just hush.
So if I'm to understand you correctly, you're essentially saying that the toughest/highest level of foes, challenges etc that Thor (since he's in this thread) has faced are average things that Superman faces and overcomes on a relatively regular basis?
So can you point me to an actual issue where the space between Asgard and Earth was described in such a way like it was in the Superman/Orion exchange you quoted?
Void can mean the emptiness of space,
Ethereal can mean celestial/heavenly. Which the Serpent was big enough to be in that arc if it can crush a planet
Astral sized depictions have never been that good in comics especially in that era. When trying to show someone do something to a planet it's hard to do and keep proportions correct.
Just look at Superboy towing the planets. We see the chain next to him to get a good judgement of how big it is compared to him.
Now we also see the chain linking between the planets so unless those are incredibly small planets the size of large houses/cruise ships/towers I can safely assume the artist just didn't get the size portions right.
Your last scan is probably the best one for supporting your claim I'll give you that one is hard to argue against. Still it could just be a cool way for the writer to state the battle took place in space and no one knew how long it took cause no one is around and that space and time have no natural boundaries to them in the blackness of space. It's not like those type of comments are unknown to comics.
At least in the Orion/Superman exchange there is a dimensional barrier separating everything but according to your theory anyone could get on a boat fly from Asgard to any world or Earth and break it apart easily from the void.
I would think that type of thing would at least appear in another Thor comic somewhere if that was the writer's true intention for the story.
The Midgard Serpent was "real" in the realm of Asgard.
Your statement that "the normal limits and proportions of time/space don't apply" is wrong, unless you plan on running a campaign in this forum that will retroactively negate all feats that have taken place in the void between Asgard and Midgard since these titles began.
Good luck. I'll meet ya there.
The story is written to be a statement of Thor's strength, which is why Thor even comments on it as he lifts the serpent.
And, of course, there is the panel I posted that actually shows the very Earth being effected from across dimensional borders.
From the approach Thor takes, through Asgard, Earth becomes the "ethereal" and the serpent is "real". This is why Thor is there, unless you have a good theory about Thor becoming a strictly spiritual/ethereal entity while outside of the 616. If you do, we would all love to hear it. But, you see, you can't. And, that is because, from the very beginning of the title, not only has it been pumped that it is a SOLID reality, but compared to the 616, it is 3 TIMES AS SOLID.
Everything in the realm has 3 times the density of the "real" world. And, the Midgard Serpent is of the Asgardian Realm. It is NEVER portrayed as being a spiritual entity. As a matter of fact, it has been hinted at that the part being seen in Midgard is the tip of the ice berg, with the remaining size of the creature extending into the dimension of Asgard.
And, it doesn't even matter if they were in the Mojoverse, the serpent's characteristics are it's characteristics. You can't DECIDE to change it's profile depending on where it is located, unless you can actually prove that where it is, can effect what it is.
Luckily you don't have to do that, because we know where it is. And, we also know that mass and density is 3 times that of the 616.
And, the serpent has been show to have the ability to hold any size and shape that it wants. It even disguised itself as Fin Fang Foom once, until it "unzipped" itself and sprang to it's full size.
That is the nature of the character. Unless you decide the the Midgard Serpent is less "real" than all of the other mystical characters in the Marvel U, it's just the way it is.
THIS is the character. THIS is what it is and THIS is what it can do, etc.
It is no more ludicrous that the machine that Superman is hooked up to and the feat being described! Are you frigging kidding me?
"Um, here Superman... We put 16 Black Holes in this paper bag and we want to see how long you can lift it, while holding this Brown Dwarf between your butt cheeks."
I just use the numbers and stats that Marvel gave me.
Incidentally, if Phil's argument to throw out so many story points, scans and on-panel statements is successful, due to the extra-dimensional properties of where the conflict takes place, I can already think of a half dozen threads where I will be using it next.
Last edited by Horrificus on Dec 17th, 2012 at 03:55 AM
Which part did you have a problem with? Seriously.
Thor had to travel through Asgard to confront the Serpent in person.
The serpent that Thor confronts is not ethereal. It is the creature itself.
I make the point that, just because a confrontation takes place in Asgard or any other dimension, it doesn't simply get disregarded, unless there are specific reasons why it should be. In this case, it is a valid confrontation taking place in an environment where there have been other comic book confrontations in the past, and none of them have been thrown out either.
The serpent has characteristics and attributes like any other character. It isn't portrayed as a dream entity or anything.
Then, I outline those characteristics a bit, including it's ability to change shape, etc. Explaining why it seems to have different sizes and appearances at times.
Last edited by Horrificus on Dec 17th, 2012 at 04:16 AM
Yeah, good thing you cleared this up. Although "you busted this feat up so I would do the same for your character" is a pretty good sign of desperation. Your entire post was nothing but "How can this be when blah, blah, blah". We saw that the serpent only coiled earth from the void and not from the real universe and its actual size wasn't even city size. You can shout "LOLZ, three times denser" shit all day long, it wouldn't change the fact that this feat is totally bogus and nowhere near planetary level thorbags claimed it to be.
To add fuel to this fire, when the serpent appeared again in the 90s, on Earth (not in the void or other dimension), it was nowhere near planetary size. I think the narrator said it "stretched for miles". That's about it.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Carver, shut up. If you have anything to add, add it. Otherwise, like I said, cut it out. That whole "melting heralds" thing is bullshit, as we know it wouldn't melt Superman, or Thor, or Surfer etc ad nauseum.
Abhi, not ALL pre-crisis stories are canon. If something is referenced, then that story happened. It's not a blanket allowance.
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Dec 17th, 2012 12:10 AM
