Proof of this? If anything was stated, it was that palpatines clone bodies were unstable and would deteriorate to the vast amounts of powers he was carrying thus needing to constantly switch clone bodies after a prolonged amount of time. Well except for his first clone body since he was draining an entire planet.
Nowhere did it actually state he is more "vulnerable to dark side attacks".
Revan clearly blunted the attack with his attempts to block it. Alternatively we could chalk it up to Drew being a derpy moron.
Its a greater feat than what the good Count demonstrated in his fight with Yoda. It isn't so much that he brought it down so much as that he cracked the rock and tore that amount for the cieling in the first place. If you watch the scene, you'll notice that the whole cave shakes while he does this.
Either way, its clear from his accolades that he is a powerful, impressive Jedi Master. The Jedi Knight outperforms him on Tython by defeating Bengal Marr, who previously defeated Master Din, and then utterly overtakes him at the end of Act 3 by defeating Darth Angral, who defeated and murdered Din, after fighting through his ship.
I'm suggesting that he could bring the same amount of power and force against everyone were he given the chance. Whether they blunt his attack or can block it completely is a factor we can argue, and primarily why we bring up feats such as this. Although personally I don't think Sidious has demonstrated much in the way of defensive capabilities.
So basically you're not contradicting my point there at all? Good.
But he doesn't intercept them at all. There is in fact, no evidence that he created a Force Shield nor is there any indication that he absorbed ant of the energy. He gets cleanly smacked in the jaw with some volts, no defense at all.
Thats fair enough then.
Incidentally, how then do you feel about Nyriss' lightning, since it reduced a powerful Force User to ash despite her attempt to resist it? And Vitiates since it is so much greater than even that?
And we also see examples of his frailty. The man (?) walks around with a cane. I find it much more likely that he cushioned his fall with the Force, which is an extremely common application of the Force and not above Yoda's capabilities. Its a stretch from being long-lived to suggesting that he is made of rubber or something.
Other than the cutscene in which he unleashes that level of power?
Similarly Sidious' lightning never disintegrates anyone in the movies, not does Yoda demonstrate the ability to bonk carrier ships together, not is Dooku's TK depicted as strong enough to lift dozens of tons of rock. This does not mean that they cannot equal the power they demonstrated in an actual fight.
T7 could have been protected by the Hero of Tython or his personal shield could be powerful enough to weather a few attacks. Vitiate does display a habit of ignoring droids as in Revan and when his shadow clone just runs past T7 instead of engaging him.
I'm glad you agree with me.
And if I may borrow a phrase, 'You conflate inference with idle speculation.'
It is when in his capacity as the Hero of Tythons companion, the danger he faces on a daily basis takes the form of powerful Force adepts, huge monsters and entire Sith outposts. Not to mention Sith Lords (Lord Praven, who defeated one of the greatest Jedi duelists) and Sorcerer's (Lord Fulminiss, considered one of the greatest Sith Sorcerer's), Imperial Gaurdsmen (Lassicar), Lord Scourge and the Emperor himself.
It was T3 who defeated them and I doubt there was much in the way of special circumstances since the fight starts in a very inclosed space with all 3 HK droids pointing blaster rifles at him. And it isn't as if T3 can run away and hide behind something, he's not especially dextrous or fast. No logically he simply defeated them in a straight fight.
In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 18: Nights of Anger, Part 3 a HK-21 model fights and defeats Jarael. Jarael was an extremely adept fighter and latent-force sensitive who was able to defeat Malak in a duel.
R2D2 is not specifically outfitted for war. He's not equipped with a blaster or an energy shield nor does he appear to have armor plating installed, built for battle. T7 is. and does. He is custom built to be able to fight along-side Jedi. That he succeeds in that task does not make his opponents weak.
I could turn this back on you. When has Palpatine devastated multiple surrounding opponents with the Force in a swift manner? When has any Force user? Galen Marek takes ages to work up to a Force Repulse. It takes several seconds for Vader to crush the objects in the room in RotS.
In the game if you hit them with a lightsaber they disappear instantly, if you hit them with the Force they resist it. IMO this is a conscious decision on the part of Bioware to show this aspect.
But Zannah does not draw it from the lake, does she? She is described as 'drawing it from the soil and stone of Ambria itself.' Just as in the case of Dromund Kaas, it seems by Banes era the darkside nexus had spread until it permeated the planet itself, the stone and soil.
I don't have to argue why it wouldn't, you need to prove that it would.
That could easily be referring to any Sith materials left on the world.
I do regard them as close and have never argued otherwise. Just because Vitiate may outstrip Sidious in Force Mastery doesn't mean that he does so in terms of combat or raw power. Force Mastery can only grant one proficiency in wielding the Force, other factors grant you more of the Force to wield.
Theres nothing here except bitching. You don't have an argument for how Scourge could feel whether Vitiate had recovered or not. Inthose cases, I did.
That Plagueis was able to use telekinesis does not mean that he had no trouble doing so. According to you, Sidious' physically being incapacitated does not stop him from being able to telekinetically stop Han from shooting him, or summoning a Force shield. I never said that Anakin had to levitate himself, just that he could pull himself up the bank.
He was panting and clutching his side. And then, previous to his destruction of the temple, the Hero hit him with a lightsaber. While the game obviously precludes the damage being shown, the length of saber that hits him would have been such to almost bisected him.
In other exhalations of power we merely have blasts of energy from the victim, not focused telekinetic destruction. I see no argument for why Vitiate couldn't reproduce the feat healthy and in well-rested.
I don't know, I don't see anything much vague assertions that Yoda had near the time Vitiate had to study the Force, nor the inclination to do so.
No, by my reckoning Sidious, as an overwhelmingly powerful dark sider and intelligent man, learned at an accelerated rate.
And yet none of them were as monstrously strong in the dark side as Bane was. Obviously if the dark side is a factor in the speed one learns, then being strong with the darkside means that you learn even faster.
My point makes complete sense when we take into consideration 2 factors: 1) That intense study and training is the only way to become more proficient at wielding the Force and 2) That the darkside is a quick way to power. It stands to reason therefore that the darkside speeds up the process by which one learns to better control the Force by allowing you to quickly assimilate Force Mastery.
I've never said that time is the only factor. Only that it is a factor.
I have never said that it is only a product of time and alignment, only that the massive amount of time Vitiate had coupled with the darksides penchant with extremely fast development cannot be dismissed and must be given the recognition it deserves. I have also brought up that Vitiate was singularly devoted to his research, that he was a notable scholar and that he lacked not for material to peruse. There really is no reason to doubt that his Force Mastery should be titanically high.
I wouldn't say talent is far more important when we are talking about the amount of time Vitiate is. To be blunt, Sidious literally could not have physically studied anywhere near as much as Vitiate could have given the time he had.
According to good old Wookieepedia, Dooku was a lightsaber instructor who actively engaged in field work and diplomatic negotiations. But I don't think its ever mentioned that he was particularly scholarly. That he had access to the material is irrevelent, the question is whether he, like Sidious and Vitiate, actively sought to learn from them.
Where does it manifest in any Force user? Vitiate demonstrates the highest of ability with Force Lightning, TK and TP. He is exceptionally proficient with rituals, likely the foremost user of them to a degree Sidious couldn't dream of. He's conquered death, created numerous extensions of his power such as his Children and Imperial Guardsmen, created artifacts and devices and mastered Foresight. Hell you've proved all this yourself later. The only things where Vitiate lacks in comparison to Sidious is lightsaber combat, and exposure.
I'm happy to accept that Vitiates mastery is merely greater than Sidious'. Logically it should be the case. But when has Star Wars proven to be unflinchingly logical?
In my opinion? Sidious has had 30 years of time in order to gather those feats. Vitiate has had one. And while I do think that Vitiate likely outstrips Sidious in his Mastery of the Force, there are other factors to be considered. Never have I said that this point needs to be the only one or that it alone demonstrates Vitiates superiority, or even that such a superiority necessarily exists.
Anyway, I'm not sure if Vitiate would be able to deal with Sidious' speed, although considering that the B-team was able to at least ready their sabers I'd wager that he could blast him away with the shield technique that he used on the Knight or throw some lightning at him to stop his charge.
Um no, the clone bodies simply didnt have the genetic potential to contain such power unlike palpatines original body. That in no way indicates he is more prone to getting damaged from the outside.
He already had been hit by a strong force push, that didn't damage him at all. And his deterioration took an extremely long time, years even, before his clone body finally dies.
You do more than "give credit where its due".
But you'd have to prove that it would be fast enough to contend with the Emperor, who could draw on the nexus to bolster his already extraordinary speed.
Dec 27th, 2012 12:02 AM
