Shuma-Gorath, all day and every day - Unless Dormammu gets that cosmic axis shift plot device or zopzop is writing the comic, since we all know he has a tentacle phobia.
No. Only connection they had in the comics was Shuma-Gorath creating a fake Dormammu that told Strange that before Shuma-Gorath he was his most powerful foe and he wished to reclaim the title. Strange brushes it off and says that the real Dormammu wouldn't admit inferiority to anyone.
Shuma sh!ts on all those that you've mentioned, save for Eternity, and Dormammu's never done squat with his own personal power against Eternity and has had to rely on plot haxx to stand a chance. Without it he got utterly stomped. And besides, Nightmare has manipulated Eternity as well through plot devices so Dormammu isn't even unique in that sense.
Shuma was kicking the crap out of the Salem Seven even when weak and hungry. So...
Post scans of someone Mephisto/Satannish/Odin level killing someone on the level of the Ancient One just by having influence over a realm that person was in.
Or better yet, post scans of one of those guys dominating a realm and its lord without having to go there.
You know as well as I do that had Shuma-Gorath had a 'vertigo' weakness, Strange would have been quick to exploit it as soon as Shuma tried to pull some crap on Earth. You'd think that the Ancient One or even Sise-Neg, who was near infallible at that point, would have exploited that as well if it actually was a weakness. That said, if you want to use that argument there and bring up ridiculous exaggerations/inconsistencies from an author, at least Shuma's never been reduced to having fist fights with Hank Pym.
AO was on the way out and Dr. Strange was on the way in for the SS spot. That guy, AO, was told to be careful not to overexert himself because he was so frail! Some feat
You are seriously referring to Nightmare being controlled by Gorath as an impressive feat?! ROFLMAO! Oh man, go ahead and post the scan of Strange owning him in a H2H fight and slapping him around like a cheap whore to get the info from him. Real impressive.
It was stated ON PANEL that Gorath has a vertigo weakness! Take that up with Marvel, not me. I didn't write the issue.
Oh and that wasn't Eternity punching Pym, that was Loki trolling Pym! So......
__________________
..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
Kaluu doesn't have AO's physical frailty so what's your point? This is a guy that's used white and black magic alike and invoked spells from Chthon's Darkhold, as well as learned magic from members of the Octessence after spending time in Ragaddor's dimension. He also took on both Dr Strange and the Ancient One at the same time as a formidable opponent, yet even he couldn't make it to a realm of Shuma's servant when he was tutoring Strange. Funny how Strange with even less power than that was doing a fine job of making Zom look like a fool years earlier...
Yes, Shuma-Gorath enslaving Nightmare is an impressive feat. Regardless of what anyone has done to Nightmare in the past, they still had to actually be present in his realm to do so. Nightmare's domain is located even beyond the sixth dimension, so Shuma being able to control the realm and the one in charge of it without even going there is impressive. It says a lot about his scope of influence.
Even if you want to count that lame vertigo weakness narration, it's never been exploited or even referenced in Shuma-Gorath's future appearances. So aside from it being an ignorant statement by an ignorant author, the 'vertigo weakness' is certainly retconned to not exist or is only attributable to Shuma-Gorath when "weak and hungry after long slumber", just like how Galactus is only getting taken down by Doc Strange with the wave of a hand when starved.
Even mentioning the Living Tribunal is fail on your part since Strange never fought him nor was LT ever trying to kill Strange.
Fact is Strange with Ancient One's power was weaker than he was when he went into Arioch's realm, and that weaker version of Strange was running circles around Zom, who was getting frustrated because he couldn't catch him in a game of tag. Even a severely weakened Shuma-Gorath kicked the sh!t out of Strange just in Strange's attempt to use Stonehenge to banish him. Even in their first encounter Shuma was toying with Strange and making him his b!tch until Strange had to resort to killing the Ancient One just to BFR Shuma. Hell, at least Shuma was able to catch Strange, unlike Zom until Strange stopped for him
But hey, since we're introducing PIS into the picture, I may as well just say that Shuma could turn the environment they are fighting in into an icy ocean to turn the environment cold. See, because Dormammu's faltine flames will be put out since he's weak in environments that aren't suitable for them and Shuma's shaped like an octopus, he'd have a complete advantage by not having vertigo to worry about either. I mean Dormammu's faltine flames were put out when Mephisto's hell froze over in Hellcat so Shuma could do the same thing. That would surely counter the 'vertigo weakness' of Shuma that's just so obviously inhibiting that Strange would have thought of it rather than resorting to merging with chaos lords and corrupting himself with black magic and even before that killing his beloved mentor to stop him. Darn, if only anyone before or after knew a magic spell for vertigo inducement.
Anyway Zop, it's pretty clear that you have a hatred of all things tentacled. Did you have a bad experience with a hentai movie once or something? Whenever Shuma's brought up you get all perturbed and testy.
He was resisting the LT's efforts to contain him, breaking a spell the LT cast! He was MORE powerful than when he faced off against Gorath lacking ALL of his artifacts.
This was even stated on panel that the spells he cast banishing various entities were weakened when his artifacts were destroyed!
You keep saying he was weaker at the time he had AO's power but you have yet to prove it.
Strange with AO's power broke out of the LTs spell. Strange without his artifacts ONWED Arioch then killed Gorath! LOL FAIL.
Zom had Strange dead to rights till he stopped his assault because he feared the LT's arrival. It's all right there on panel my deluded friend.
That "severly" weakened Gorath fought a non SS Strange no? Hell Diablo was gonna face off against him!
Low showings are normal and it doesn't detract from Dormammu's power at all. The fact that MULTIPLE GODS and Hell Lords had to combine their power to accomplish that feat also speaks volumes. But don't let facts get in the way of your desperately trying to drag Dormammu down to Gorath's pathetic level.
I "hate" him because of all the crap on these forums associated with him. He's among the LEAST impressive demons in the MU with almost nothing in the way of fights or feats to back up his over-hyped levels of power.
__________________
..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
LT was testing Strange the whole time to see if Earth was actually worthy enough for him not to destroy it. And after Strange broke out of that Rings of Raggador enchantment LT just cast it again and Strange was immediately helpless. Why try and make out like Strange was actually close to contending with the Living Tribunal? He even says on panel that LT could simply nod his head and destroy the globe.
And no, he was not even close to being more powerful than he was when he faced off against Shuma-Gorath. He was absolutely weaker.
Strange made up for his inability to use White Magic against Shuma-Gorath by corrupting himself with black magic along with other boosts. In total:
1) Learned to wield various black magic arts from Kaluu
2) Obtained the Wings of Needless Sorrow which enabled him to absorb magic from others
3) Absorbed all the magical potential of Victoria Bentley (her potential was higher than Baron Mordo's, Strange's rival)
4) Obtained Eldrich energy from the chaos lord Ghaszaszh Nyirh after their battle
5) Merged with the chaos lord Arioch
The fact that Kaluu was taking on Strange and the Ancient One at the same time beforehand and was always AO's peer in mystic power, yet couldn't even make it to Arioch's realm without being slowly killed by the energy in the realm before it, already shows that Strange had succeeded his previous power by a good deal since he wasn't at all affected by the realm's mystic energy as Kaluu was.
Yes, let's all ignore the plot and act like the situations were even close to similar.
Zom couldn't even catch Strange until he pulled off Zom's forelock and willingly stopped right in front of him, falsely believing that pulling off the forelock was all that was required for Zom's defeat. Before that he was flying circles around him and made Zom have a hissy fit.
Kay.
And yet you keep bringing up Shuma's showing when he was summoned by Nicholas Scratch as if that's the limit to Shuma's power. I smell bias.
None of the Vishanti were able to defeat Shuma, and that was before their retcon. Not like Shuma hasn't contended with others before. It was even said that in defeating Shuma-Gorath, Strange had done what Agamotto himself could not. You're just trying to elevate Dormammu's normal power to Gorath's far superior power. Sure Dormy's been superior to Shuma-Gorath at times through plot device, but this battle is Dormammu's standard power vs Shuma's, and Shuma wins when both are confined to their own personal powers and not extended to include some plot device.
Strange with AO's power impressed the LT and the LT himself said so.
Strange sans ALL of his artifacts annihilated Gorath and his minions. Dance around this fact all you want Cort, it's not going away.
Yeah and? None of those no named beings you mentioned mean anything. We have no feats or fights to gauge their power by! The fact that Strange wtfpwned Arioch in like 8 panels says all we need to know about Arioch's power level. And it's not good.
Pulling out his forlock was the only way to beat him, since it would unleash evil energy and summon the LT. That was what the AO told Strange before merging with the stone pillar.
Strange with AO's power did nothing to Zom. Zom, on the other hand, had Strange dead to rights until the LT arrived.
Strange has humiliated Gorath on at least 2 occasions.
When did the Vishanti even fight Gorath?! And I'm not talking about ONE sentence. What were the circumstances of the fight.
You are basing your whole argument off ONE SENTENCE with no context behind it.
And as we've seen, Strange DIDN'T kill Gorath, because Gorath was going to be reborn through Strange. If Strange really did kill Gorath, we wouldn't have any subsequent appearances by him no? Some feat.
__________________
..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
KMC Community Forums
Feb 6th, 2013 11:40 AM
