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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode I, II & III » Old Jedi ghosts in new trilogy


Old Jedi ghosts in new trilogy
Started by: OB1-adobe

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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

quote: (post)
There's the blu ray edition Hayden


Hayden was added to the DVDs and the Blu-rays.

quote: (post)
but yes, that is a stupid idea....as his force ghost is good anakin.


??? Good Anakin is what you'd be getting in an Anakin Force ghost, whether that was represented by Hayden or Shaw.


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Old Post Aug 26th, 2015 01:49 AM
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queeq
Chaos

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Good Anakin? When was there a good Anakin?


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2015 05:09 PM
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Lord Lucien
Fegelien!

Registered: Jul 2005
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Good Anakin? When was there a good Anakin?
"Mom, you always said the biggest problem in the world is that nobody helps each other."



Tell me those aren't the words of a fundamentally good man being read by a sub-par child actor.


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Old Post Sep 6th, 2015 05:40 PM
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queeq
Chaos

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That was a kid talking, repeating what his mom said. I'm sure Anakin's mom was good.

Anakin was bad when we met him in AOTC. That was what he was from the moment he started thinking by himself.


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Old Post Sep 7th, 2015 05:19 AM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Good Anakin? When was there a good Anakin?


Prior to turning to the dark side. In SW turning to the dark side is a thing. But JediRobin23 was the one who used the phrase "good Anakin". What makes Shaw "good Anakin"?

quote: (post)
Anakin was bad when we met him in AOTC.


No.

quote:
from the moment he started thinking by himself.


That happens earlier than you apparently believe.


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Last edited by Darth Luminous on Sep 12th, 2015 at 12:42 AM

Old Post Sep 12th, 2015 12:37 AM
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queeq
Chaos

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Shaw was the redeemed Anakin, the one that decided, for once in his live, to make a good decision.

And how can you say Anakin was not bad in AOTC? From the first moment we see him he is arrogant, disobedient, self-centred, whiny, annoyed, unbalanced, emotional, dismissive of his peers and mentor, ambitious to be elevated from all others... the seeds of evil are all there. I didn't see any 'goodness', I didn't see a hero to cheer for. Just an arrogant, selfish and power-hungry brat... in other words: Vader without the mask.

There was no need to turn, Anakin had already turned when he reached adolescence.


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Old Post Sep 12th, 2015 07:25 AM
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
From the first moment we see him he is arrogant, disobedient, self-centred, whiny, annoyed, unbalanced, emotional, dismissive of his peers and mentor, ambitious to be elevated from all others... the seeds of evil are all there.



That's like most teenagers tbh. Hardly evidence of an Evil man to be. Most of those Whiny and Bratty teenagers mature a few years on. And Anakin certainly seemed to have done so by the beginning of ROTS Imo.

His killing of the Tusken Raiders in AOTC is the better evidence of his Evilness to be. But I'm not sure how much above animals Tusken Raiders are considered, if at all. Still bad obviously.

But the Clone Wars has certainly helped with my perception of him. So I do feel he did grow, from a whiny brat with a violent temper into a hero willing to sacrifice himself for others, during the gap between AOTC and ROTS.

That might just be me though.

Old Post Sep 14th, 2015 02:07 PM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

quote: (post)
There was no need to turn, Anakin had already turned when he reached adolescence.


An arrogant person not pledged to the dark side and someone fully turned to the dark side are very different things. Arrogant and disobedient is not synonymous with "bad", unless you're a parent lecturing a child.

quote: (post)
Shaw was the redeemed Anakin, the one that decided, for once in his live, to make a good decision.


There's really no redemption in SW per se; in this context redemption is basically code for returning to the light side. Anakin's ghost as Hayden represents the last time he was on the light side, his problems notwithstanding.


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Old Post Sep 14th, 2015 07:04 PM
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queeq
Chaos

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The point is: from the very beginning of AOTC there is no character CHANGE in Anakin. The Tusken killing is just an act from his will and attitude he displays from the moment we meet him AOTC. In the Tusken scene he ACTS upon it, showing us therefore that he's already gone. And he remains unchanged from that moment on.

What it basically comes down to is that it's very bad character writing for the 'best pilot in the galaxy', 'a good friend' and the 'good man that was your father'. He is the best pilot, sure, but he's not a hero we can cheer for, he's not a good friend and not a good man. Therefore his fall in ROTS doesn't work: what's the loss? He was an a$$-hole before and he still is, when he commits himself to Palpy's teachings but now he's a$$-hole with a Darth name. But what's in a name in the end?

And how can you say there is no redemption???? That is exactly what happens at the end of ROTJ. It's the whole point of Luke's quest in ROTJ, to turn his father back to the light/good side. And Anakin does that. By killing the Emperor he redeems himself, the reward is that he gets admitted to lighted ghostliness...

If you don't get that, you seriously don't get the OT.


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Old Post Sep 16th, 2015 08:01 AM
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Bashar Teg
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
The point is: from the very beginning of AOTC there is no character CHANGE in Anakin. The Tusken killing is just an act from his will and attitude he displays from the moment we meet him AOTC.


he begins furling his brow after his turn to the dark side, though. that's just as good as convincing character development.


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Old Post Sep 16th, 2015 02:28 PM
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Darth Luminous
kusemono

Registered: Oct 2005
Location: Kashyyyk Shadowlands


 

quote: (post)
In the Tusken scene he ACTS upon it, showing us therefore that he's already gone.


He's not already gone. Afterwards he displays remorse, self-recrimination and awareness that what he did was wrong, and later in the film and its sequel he continues trying to do his duty on the side of the Republic just as any Jedi in good standing. He's not "gone" until later on after turning to the dark side, at a point when he is committed to evil and essentially remorseless about things such as killing Jedi, serving the Empire, later standing by as millions are massacred, etc.

quote: (post)
but he's not a hero we can cheer for


If I could find a place where Obi-Wan said he was "a hero we can cheer for", that might be a problem. Instead, the information given about Anakin in the films was in some ways very different from what fans imagined. ANH declined to say anything about his character and just talked about his skill and his prior friendship with Kenobi. In TESB we were even told he had anger issues! And that is exactly what we got: a troubled man who eventually fell to the dark side. The "pious noble Anakin" caricature that sometimes persists in fan belief raises the question of why such a person would fall to the dark side when the other Jedi did not. I should note here that the pre-prequel Shadows of the Empire got his characterization right!

quote: (post)
he's not a good friend


What does this even mean? He was a good friend to Obi-Wan at one point. This is the place in which we find the two of them as ROTS begins. At this point Anakin is also continuing to engage in actions which he believes to be heroic, such as putting his life in danger to save the leader of the Republic, someone who at that point was believed by everyone to be just a relatively harmless politician.

quote: (post)
Therefore his fall in ROTS doesn't work: what's the loss?


Ask the residents of Alderaan ( but I suspect you'll have trouble getting through ). In effect, you're trying to throw the whole concept of turning to the dark side under the bus. It is a thing, you can't just handwave it away.

quote: (post)
And how can you say there is no redemption???? That is exactly what happens at the end of ROTJ. It's the whole point of Luke's quest in ROTJ, to turn his father back to the light/good side.


So you missed where I said "redemption is really code for returning to the light side"?


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Last edited by Darth Luminous on Sep 17th, 2015 at 02:39 AM

Old Post Sep 17th, 2015 02:37 AM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Luminous
An arrogant person not pledged to the dark side and someone fully turned to the dark side are very different things. Arrogant and disobedient is not synonymous with "bad", unless you're a parent lecturing a child.



Well they are bad qualities no doubt. But can't just call anyone whose arrogant as Evil. Especially when they're teenagers.

But If they're overly arrogant into adult life, then it's hard to call them good people tbh.

Old Post Sep 17th, 2015 09:56 AM
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queeq
Chaos

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'Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will."

Anakin started down the dark path sometime between TPM and AOTC.


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Old Post Sep 22nd, 2015 07:37 PM
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Lord Lucien
Fegelien!

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
'Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will."

Anakin started down the dark path sometime between TPM and AOTC.
Actually it was during TPM. Remember when the Federation ship blew up, killing probably a good number of living people? Such massive destruction and his only reaction is "Wooo!"


Little shit was getting his bloodthirsty jollies from the get-go.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2015 02:42 AM
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queeq
Chaos

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Well, yeah, but there he didn't know what he was doing.


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Old Post Sep 23rd, 2015 04:44 PM
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batman
worlds best decective

Registered: Jul 2003
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Re: Old Jedi ghosts in new trilogy

quote: (post)
Originally posted by OB1-adobe
You know it just occurred to me.


Ewan and Sam Jackson have expressed interest in returning (as least thats what I hear).


Hayden coming back as ghost Anakin playing scenes next to an old mark Hamill?


I wonder what people would think about that?


Personally, I don't like that idea. I don't even want Ewan to return as a force ghost of Obi Wan! It would be so awkward! Why would his force image change from Alex to Ewan? It doesn't make any sense! Now, if they were to have an Obi Wan spin-off taking place between episodes 2 & 3, & cast Ewan, I wouldn't mind that.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2015 04:36 PM
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