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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: TV Series » Clone Wars Winding Down.


Clone Wars Winding Down.
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
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^ Ah but that's not quite true. If you read the countless interviews of Filoni, he was basically Lucas's protege during TCW. He wasn't the most influential person over TCW. That was still Lucas.

TCW was simply like ESB or ROTJ. Lucas was technically only executive producing on those too. But the story, ideas, the vision and overall implementation was still all his.

Perhaps Lucas is best not being in the Director's chair. But to give him any less than 50% of the credit for TCW would just be disingenuous.

Old Post Mar 17th, 2014 10:47 PM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ Ah but that's not quite true. If you read the countless interviews of Filoni, he was basically Lucas's protege during TCW. He wasn't the most influential person over TCW.
That is a gross exaggeration, to say the least.


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2014 11:01 PM
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ares834
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Filoni has called himself Lucas's Padawan on at least one occasion. Now I have no clue who did more on the series, but both of them seem to have been the two major creative forces behind it.


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Old Post Mar 17th, 2014 11:09 PM
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Galan007
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^ That's him being humble while working with the franchise's creator.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Lucas doesn't deserve any credit. I'm simply saying that Filoni deserves more credit.


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Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 17th, 2014 at 11:21 PM

Old Post Mar 17th, 2014 11:18 PM
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King Joker
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What do you guys think about the voice acting in the show?

Old Post Mar 18th, 2014 02:23 AM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
That is a gross exaggeration, to say the least.



No, it's really not. Just read all the interviews of his and even Sam Witwer's. Filoni continuously explains how he wasn't fond of a certain thing, but that's what Lucas wanted, so that's what they did. And how pretty much every major story line came directly from Lucas. Even Sam Witwer was explaining that pretty much everything happeneing there comes directly from Lucas and is exactly how he wanted things to be.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
^ That's him being humble while working with the franchise's creator.


Oh no, he's said it many times that Lucas has basically taught him the ropes. And his main strength he's bringing to Rebels is that he's learned it all directly from Lucas, and knows Lucas's vision best (unlike the other major players working on that show like Kinberg).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, I'm not saying that Lucas doesn't deserve any credit. I'm simply saying that Filoni deserves more credit.


How can you say that when Lucas was the one in charge? Without Lucas the show would be completely different. There would have been no Mortis Arc, Krell Arc, Darth Maul Arc, Order 66 Arc, Sifo Dyas/Yoda Force Ghost Arc... (the list goes on and on).

Without Filoni however, the show would have undoubtedly been different, but it would have stayed on an overall similar direction. The whole show happened through daily conversations between Filoni and Lucas, with Lucas having the last say, but Filoni implementing it.

So yes credit should be given to both of them, but Lucas does deserve as a bare minimum 50% of the credit for this show. And that really is a bare minimum.

Last edited by Darth Thor on Mar 18th, 2014 at 08:44 AM

Old Post Mar 18th, 2014 08:42 AM
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Galan007
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No, it's really not. Just read all the interviews of his and even Sam Witwer's. Filoni continuously explains how he wasn't fond of a certain thing, but that's what Lucas wanted, so that's what they did. And how pretty much every major story line came directly from Lucas. Even Sam Witwer was explaining that pretty much everything happeneing there comes directly from Lucas and is exactly how he wanted things to be.

Oh no, he's said it many times that Lucas has basically taught him the ropes. And his main strength he's bringing to Rebels is that he's learned it all directly from Lucas, and knows Lucas's vision best (unlike the other major players working on that show like Kinberg).

How can you say that when Lucas was the one in charge? Without Lucas the show would be completely different. There would have been no Mortis Arc, Krell Arc, Darth Maul Arc, Order 66 Arc, Sifo Dyas/Yoda Force Ghost Arc... (the list goes on and on).

Without Filoni however, the show would have undoubtedly been different, but it would have stayed on an overall similar direction. The whole show happened through daily conversations between Filoni and Lucas, with Lucas having the last say, but Filoni implementing it.

So yes credit should be given to both of them, but Lucas does deserve as a bare minimum 50% of the credit for this show. And that really is a bare minimum.
Why are you turning this into a full-blown debate? My opinion is my opinion. Doesn't matter to me one bit if you agree or not. You can bring up these weberviews in which Filoni is clearly being humble by comparing himself to a Padawan and whatnot all you'd like, but I have also seen other weberviews(and could probably find several more if I really dig) in which Filoni is given the bulk of the credit for TCW. So yeah. /shrug

Anywho, I stick by my original statement: the overall portrayal of the SWU in the animated universe was much different(in a better way) than the SWU's portrayal in the cinematic universe. I think this vast difference between mediums can be credited moreso to Filoni, because he was obviously more willing to take [calculated] risks in TCW then Lucas would have ever taken in his PT films. If you think the glaring differences between said mediums should be credited primarily to Lucas simply because he owned the franchise at the time and all ideas had to be approved by him, then go right ahead. I think it's pretty clear, however, that Filoni was the guy who truly affected said changes.

That is all I'm going to say on the subject. You can have the last word if you must.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by King Joker
What do you guys think about the voice acting in the show?
I thought most voices were well done and fit each character nicely.


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Old Post Mar 18th, 2014 08:20 PM
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Darth Thor
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Why are you turning this into a full-blown debate? My opinion is my opinion. Doesn't matter to me one bit if you agree or not. You can bring up these weberviews in which Filoni is clearly being humble by comparing himself to a Padawan and whatnot all you'd like, but I have also seen other weberviews(and could probably find several more if I really dig) in which Filoni is given the bulk of the credit for TCW. So yeah. /shrug

Anywho, I stick by my original statement: the overall portrayal of the SWU in the animated universe was much different(in a better way) than the SWU's portrayal in the cinematic universe. I think this vast difference between mediums can be credited moreso to Filoni, because he was obviously more willing to take [calculated] risks in TCW then Lucas would have ever taken in his PT films. If you think the glaring differences between said mediums should be credited primarily to Lucas simply because he owned the franchise at the time and all ideas had to be approved by him, then go right ahead. I think it's pretty clear, however, that Filoni was the guy who truly affected said changes.

That is all I'm going to say on the subject. You can have the last word if you must.



That's fine if that's what you want to believe. I don't really need the last word. I'm not interested in a full blown debate either, am just pointing out the facts. And I just find it strange that no one's willing to give Lucas any kind of credit for his own work when it's generally considered good nowadays.

It's not just that Lucas "owned" the franchise. He outright created TCW and he was the origin of all the major storylines, and had the final say on everything. So just can't see any reason not to credit him if you like the show, except the fact that people don't like crediting anything good to Lucas anymore.

I've also said all I need to on the subject.

Old Post Mar 18th, 2014 08:52 PM
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-Pr-
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If we're going to give Lucas credit for TCW... Then wtf happened with the PT?

Explain that, please.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 03:24 PM
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ares834
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erm

Authors create good and bad material all the time. After all, Lucas was primarily responsible for the OT. Plus, CW has it's bad episodes as well.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 03:42 PM
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Galan007
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^ Of course TCW has bad episodes--nothing is perfect. As a whole, however, it is far better than the PT films, imo.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 04:08 PM
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-Pr-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
erm

Authors create good and bad material all the time. After all, Lucas was primarily responsible for the OT. Plus, CW has it's bad episodes as well.


We're talking about a bigger gulf than just having a bad day, though.

Lucas deserves credit, yes. I just think Filoni deserves a fair bit more when it comes to TCW.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 05:20 PM
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ares834
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
We're talking about a bigger gulf than just having a bad day, though.


And the gulf between the OT and PT is far vaster than the one between the PT and CW.

Lucas has already shown that he can craft extraordinary stories. Simply because the PT isn't quite up the caliber of CW does not mean Filoni deserves the most credit for the series. Now I'm not saying Lucas did more on the series as I honestly have no clue who did what, but I find your argument to be flawed.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 05:34 PM
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-Pr-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
And the gulf between the OT and PT is far vaster than the one between the PT and CW.

Lucas has already shown that he can craft extraordinary stories. Simply because the PT isn't quite up the caliber of CW does not mean Filoni deserves the most credit for the series. Now I'm not saying Lucas did more on the series as I honestly have no clue who did what, but I find your argument to be flawed.


He didn't have as much oversight over the OT as he did the PT, though.

He had other directors for two of his movies. He wasn't surrounded by yes men. He had people telling him when his dialogue sucked, and he had to be creative because he had a lot less to work with. He was far less indulgent with those movies, and imo it really showed.

You can believe it's flawed if you want, I don't mind. I just don't agree.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 05:48 PM
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ares834
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Anyway, IGN has an interesting interview with Filoni.

It further explains several things from the movies and TV series including Sifo-Dyas.


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Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 06:08 PM
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Darth Thor
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^ LOL Again his first reply there is:

Again, all of these stories originated with George [Lucas]

Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 06:27 PM
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Galan007
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Lol, the whole statement:
"Again, all of these stories originated with George [Lucas], and he wanted to tell the story of Order 66. He seemed very interested in getting into the details of that story and what drives it. So we had a lot of dangerous ground to tread there because how can you tell a story about that?"

In fact, Filoni goes on to explain how he changed the perception of Palpatine's plan in TCW from how Lucas had depicted in the films--he took it from seemingly infallible, to fallible:
"I think the unanticipated thing for Palpatine… because I like showing that not everything goes according to plan for Palpatine. It seems if you watch it from the movie side that he had his machine and it just ran perfectly, but I like the idea that there were mere misses and calamities that he had to recover from. One of them was the idea that this almost got discovered and that it might backfire and that the programming wasn't perfect and that the Jedi had affected the clones in a way that he had not anticipated, which is with their loyalty and individuality."

There's also this:
"My approach has always been to utilize the Expanded Universe as basically a base of ideas. That was very much how George used it. He would see things like Aayla Secura or Quinlan Vos, and he would say, "Oh, that's neat. Let's use that," but he would never really use them quite in the way that the comic books told the story."

And most importantly, this:
"You know, we still have a lot of great information in those stories that we didn't get to tell that I think we can leverage all over the place for years to come. That's what I did on Clone Wars. I took stories that George had never finished; I took designs that never got utilized, and I used them in The Clone Wars."

In all honesty, that particular interview made it sound like Lucas came up with some of the generalized ideas(ie. "let's tell the audience about how Order 666 played out!"), and Filoni would then come up with the particulars behind the story itself. If a big enough topic/plot arose(such as the Force Ghost concept) everyone brainstormed together. But yeah, still stand by what I said



Good interview, though. thumb up


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Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 19th, 2014 at 07:44 PM

Old Post Mar 19th, 2014 07:36 PM
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King Joker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Lol, the whole statement:
"Again, all of these stories originated with George [Lucas], and he wanted to tell the story of Order 66. He seemed very interested in getting into the details of that story and what drives it. So we had a lot of dangerous ground to tread there because how can you tell a story about that?"

In fact, Filoni goes on to explain how he changed the perception of Palpatine's plan in TCW from how Lucas had depicted in the films--he took it from seemingly infallible, to fallible:
"I think the unanticipated thing for Palpatine… because I like showing that not everything goes according to plan for Palpatine. It seems if you watch it from the movie side that he had his machine and it just ran perfectly, but I like the idea that there were mere misses and calamities that he had to recover from. One of them was the idea that this almost got discovered and that it might backfire and that the programming wasn't perfect and that the Jedi had affected the clones in a way that he had not anticipated, which is with their loyalty and individuality."

There's also this:
"My approach has always been to utilize the Expanded Universe as basically a base of ideas. That was very much how George used it. He would see things like Aayla Secura or Quinlan Vos, and he would say, "Oh, that's neat. Let's use that," but he would never really use them quite in the way that the comic books told the story."

And most importantly, this:
"You know, we still have a lot of great information in those stories that we didn't get to tell that I think we can leverage all over the place for years to come. That's what I did on Clone Wars. I took stories that George had never finished; I took designs that never got utilized, and I used them in The Clone Wars."

In all honesty, that particular interview made it sound like Lucas came up with some of the generalized ideas(ie. "let's tell the audience about how Order 666 played out!"), and Filoni would then come up with the particulars behind the story itself. If a big enough topic/plot arose(such as the Force Ghost concept) everyone brainstormed together. But yeah, still stand by what I said



Good interview, though. thumb up


Yes, very interesting...

Old Post Mar 22nd, 2014 03:12 AM
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-Pr-
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Sucks that TCW is over either way.

Oh well, I still have SWTOR, which is something.


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Old Post Mar 22nd, 2014 05:31 AM
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King Joker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
Sucks that TCW is over either way.

Oh well, I still have SWTOR, which is something.


Yeah, it was getting better and better each season, hopefully Rebels will be good though.

Old Post Mar 23rd, 2014 07:05 PM
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