Quick question:
From what I've read about this film, when Whis informed Bills that Frieza had been killed by Goku, he [Bills] was shocked that anyone aside from him was able to beat Frieza.
Does this imply that Supreme Kai was weaker than Frieza?
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Wasn't Supreme Ki shocked at Goku Super Saiyan form...Goku power level? If so, wouldnt that give us an indication that Frieza is more powerful than Ki since he nearly matched Goku at this level?
Supreme Kai was shocked at the the SSJ transformation in general-- but this was during the Buu saga, so the Z fighters were vastly stronger than Frieza by that time. However, Kai was also awestruck at base-level Vegeta's power, when he effortlessly killed Pui Pui... So yeah.
Oh and Frieza never rivaled SSJ Goku in the manga, like he did in the anime filler. Remember, even when at 100% power, Frieza only possessed a PL of 120,000,000-- which is still 30,000,000 less than that of SSJ Goku. That's why SSJ Goku utterly shit-stomped 100% Frieza in the manga(which supersedes the anime in terms of canonicity.)
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 31st, 2013 at 06:09 PM
Question, and I hope you're old enough to remember this argument...
Didn't the English dub create a massive argument regarding Goku and Future Trunks? Didn't Trunks say something like, "true super Saiyan" which made people think that Goku was not a SSJ, yet, when he fought Frieza?*
Do you remember that particular argument? I do. Did the argument have any base in canoncity or was it solely an English dub caused problem between Future Trunks and Goku right when he got back to Earth?
*Not the be confused with FPSSJ (Full Power Super Saiya-Jin). It's the difference between a rage-induced SSJ state and a controlled SSJ state that can be activated on a whim vs. rage induced. That was what the argument was.
__________________
Last edited by dadudemon on Aug 31st, 2013 at 06:33 PM
Hm, I've been watching DBZ since the beginning-- I literally watched every single episode as they first aired in the US(I even have them downloaded) and I do not remember anything quite like that. I remember Trunks asking Goku if he'd learned to transform into a SSJ at will, but that's about it.
However, if that was in fact stated, it's nothing more than horrendous anime/English-dub error, of which grossly contradicts the manga.
Dabura was contained solely in his own demon-realm, until Babidi plucked him from there with his magics, and made him a Majin-slave.
So perhaps Bills wouldn't have taken Dabs into account, given that he *shouldn't* have been in the living/mortal realm to begin with.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 31st, 2013 at 08:02 PM
Well, that should clarify it, then. And it does seem to have some credence: at will vs. on a whim. Like all fanboy arguments, there is truth to both sides.
So if Bills said that Frieza was the strongest in our universe, that is/was probably true if Dabura is seen as being associated with a different universe.
ALL SSJ transformations are easier to attain the more they are used.
For example: when Goku first transformed into a SSJ3 against Fat Buu, not only did it take him a LONG time, but he nearly shook the entire earth apart in the process. Later on in the series, when he fought Buutenks on earth, Goku was was able to transform into a SSJ3 effortlessly(*clap-on*), and was able to do so w/o causing any collateral damage whatsoever.
We saw the same basic thing with SSJ2 Gohan during the Cell saga.
Beat you to it.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
I am trying to think of an exception just to argue...
But I can't.
Even Trunks, going into USSJ form, had trouble. That was probably the first time he went all the way to USSJ, though...I think he kept it hidden from his father...
But, about Goku's SSJ3, I think the next time he did it on earth, he was not limited by a specific amount of energy. He was given a free pass by the Kai's because of the threat Buu presented. So, he got the whole deal rather than a watered down, energy limited, deal. That might explain some of it. But, more likely, the power-up was done by Toriyama like that to make it seem awesome and dramatic since it was a reveal because Goku supposedly attained that form in Otherworld, first. But then explain why no one was shitting their pants, then, when he first attained it in Otherworld? AHA! Gotcha, Toriyama! Plotholes my balls!
KMC Community Forums
Jul 26th, 2013 09:14 PM
