Ah, fair enough then. I would seem in canon then, Mace is legitimately extremely close to Sidious, to the degree he can take wins. That being said, we have a multitude of quotes indicating Sidious is better, so we can reconcile this with Mace taking a minority victory.
Mace wins. Even if you try to attach circumstances to diminish his performance against Sidious (ie. he was amped, Sidious was holding back somewhat), which there isn't even ironclad evidence for, it still comes off as considerably better than anything Tenebrous has done. If he could put up a good performance against a Sith two steps above on the Banite Line, then it stands to reason that he'd prevail against Tenebrous, although not without a serious degree of resistance, of course.
Last edited by lazybones on Sep 8th, 2017 at 08:36 PM
That their are circumstances behind Mace stalemating/beating Sidious does not mean Mace can't legitimately compete with him by virtue of his own merit.
Registered: Jun 2016
Location: The Throne of the Sheevites
Whirling to the tunnel they had just exited and managing somehow to remain on his feet, Tenebrous conjured a Force shield with his waving arms that met the fireball and contained it, thousands of flaming hawk-bats spiraling within the tumult like windblown embers.
The movie matters more than Lucas. In the movie, it is seen that Palpatine has Mace at saberpoint. It is not just my analysis, it is what is seen in the movie. It is what happens. End. The movie matters more than Lucas, and I am going with the movie.
__________________ "Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy! And... we shall have... peace."
You act as if there was no context. Sidious let Mace block it. Not the same as Mace blocking it even if Sidious tried to stop it. You do know what context is, right?
In the movie only universe, it's logical to think Palpatine threw the fight. He wants to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, and the perfect way to do that is to pretend that the Jedi want to take over and make himself look a frail old man- thus, making the Jedi's actions look like cold-blooded assassination. If Palpatine had simply killed the Masters, Anakin would have attacked Palpatine or called other Jedi to arrest or kill Palpatine for the murders he committed.
When it comes to EU, the novel makes pretty obvious Sidious was not willing to kill Mace until Anakin was turned.
Yes, Palpatine did kill Mace when Mace was no longer useful. Anakin wasn't a Dark Sider during the saber fight, thus Palpatine still needed Mace alive for his plan to work. Anakin was already on his side in the GIF you posted, so Mace was no longer useful. We're talking about the saber fight, though. Palpatine's intentions in the saber fight are what matters.
Yes, I admitted Mace blocked it. But there is context to that. Circumstances that allowed that to happen. For example, Obi-Wan beat Anakin on Mustafar. Is it that simple? No, there were circumstances shaping the outcome of the fight. In the instance we're discussing, Mace did block the strike, but only because Palpatine allowed to. Which is made even more obvious when Palpatine is much faster than unamped Mace- Mace couldn't properly react to Palpatine and even with Kit Fisto for help could only randomly put his saber in front of his body (ROTS novel).
__________________ "Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy! And... we shall have... peace."
You might want to watch the fight again friend. Sidious' arm was completely extended and his legs weren't in a position to quickly drive him forward, which is to say they were mostly straight as he walked instead of being a slight crouch. Mechanically there is no way he can quickly drive his saber into Windu's chest. He'd have to use the Force to propel him, and given that Mace Windu can also use the force and has more room to maneuver his saber than Palpatine does (Palpatine moving his saber from where it already was would just make it harder to hit him), I don't really see any compelling reason to assume Palpatine could have easily killed Mace there.
I don't even like using film choreography as talking point, given that it's restricted by the performance of actors (in this case; two rather sluggish gentlemen of advanced years) but based of it alone, there's no reason to believe that Sidious had Windu dead to rights at any point in their duel. Had anyone figured that Palpatine actually attempted to thrust at Windu here, but was out of range?
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It's as you say. His arm is fully extended and he's already leant in. In order to kill him from that position, he has to thrust his entire body forward. There are plenty of options for Windu and ample time to react before that happens. The rest of Sithmasters rant is redundant if it's prefaced on his, now debunked, interpretation of fight choreography.
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“We defeated the wrong enemy” - General George S. Patton, Berlin 1945
No it's your personal interpretation of the movie.
And as has been stated above, there's no guarantee Palpatine could have stabbed Mace there. Now if Palpatine had Mace on the floor with a Saber to his chest then that'd be very different.
But when you're claiming George Lucas is wrong, and the movie is greater than Lucas, then you better have a damn good contradiction there to just completely dismiss Lucas's statement, which you clearly don't have.
At most you can claim Palpatine had the advantage at that point in the fight, which just means the fight went back and forth, so again doesn't contradict Lucas's statement in the least.
Sep 8th, 2017 08:29 PM
That their are circumstances behind Mace stalemating/beating Sidious does not mean Mace can't legitimately compete with him by virtue of his own merit.
