WTF are you talking about? When he grabbed her, she not only broke his grip but also broke his arm. She then proceeded to beat him down with a metal pole.
When he attempted to blitz her on the staircase, she jumped down. The moment he followed, she impaled him with a wooden stick and literally had him down on his knees at her mercy. Genevieve's spell waking Hayley up saved Mikael from further humiliating ownage.
When Klaus choked her in episode 2, she couldn't even move him off her. When Elijah did the same several episodes later(despite being weakened by werewolf venom no less), again she was similarly helpless. So you ca gtfo with this non-existent "he was weakened by the OS deteriorating" crap.
Mikael got destroyed and humiliated by a pregnant werewolf. Denying it would be the height of fanboyism. Just chalk it upto awful writing by Carina Mackenzie(seriously, who in their right minds promoted her to full time writer for the next season) and the show makers latest fad obsession with giving Hayley needless and unnecessary "badass" moments and avoid yourself the trouble of coming up with ridiculous explanations for that scene.
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Last edited by TheGodKiller02 on May 2nd, 2014 at 04:36 AM
You do know it was a dream right? And that he used dream manipulation to enter her mind? LOL
Except he didn't kill her right away. He held her there long enough for her to do that. Do you not remember the conversation in between or what? So no he didn't have to do anything.
Instead of flying right up to her he flew PAST her. He evidently wasn't out to kill her immediately. The fact that she couldn't react means he could have blitzed and killed her.
Except Mikael didn't choke her though. He had his arms wrapped around her but left her hands pretty free and with the close proximity she was able to do something.
No he wasn't serious at all. Otherwise he would have killed her instantly the two times he blitzed her like you said. Ignoring that is just...
You do know that Monique had hexed her right? That said hex caused her heart to stop beating briefly? Which meant she went to the Other Side for a brief period of time. Mikael himself confirmed confirmed that it wasn't a dream or a nightmare and what was happening was very real, which puts a dent on your theory.
He didn't kill her because he couldn't kill her. She had enough strength to actually overpower him and beat him down.
He didn't blitz her in that instant, silly goose. The moment he crossed the stairs past her, she immediately jumped down, and he followed suit. The result was him getting impaled with a wooden pole, lol.
Her arms were free when being choked by Klaus/Elijah as well. Yet she couldn't do to them what she did to Mike the pussy Tyke.
Yes he was. He wanted to kill the child to spite Klaus. There is no reason why he wouldn't attempt to actually kill her in that instant, when we are actually shown what he's doing.
First of all, it was already pointed out in the previous post that even a weakened Original(Elijah after getting bitten by Klaus) is stronger than any werewolf. Second of all; Carina Mackenzie? Really? That woman is to Hayley what Caroline Dries is to Elena. You do realize that the same fan who asked those questions poked a huge hole in her "explanation" by asking why Enzo was able to drown Elena, and overpower Stefan/Damon as well? Or the fact that everytime the OS has come crashing down, we have seen Lexi, who's been dead even longer than both Mikael and Enzo combined, has managed to overpower Stefan/Damon like they were weak feebs?
Just concede that this was a horribly inconsistent low showing for Mikael, and avoid yourself the further trouble of performing mental gymnastics to explain it away.
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Last edited by TheGodKiller02 on May 4th, 2014 at 05:47 PM
Are you this ignorant? He fully blitzed and held her so that he could give his annual "klaus is a bastard" speech. The fact that she couldn't perceive him let alone breakout immediately means he had a huge window to kill her but didn't take the opportunity.
He did blitz her though lol. He flew all the way to the stairs and once that she saw he was there she THEN jumped down. Why didn't he bother to go directly to her and one shot her? Why didn't he give chase when she was leaping? Why didnt he blitz her while she was distracted breaking the pole on the stairs? He was toying with her. he likes it slow and painful.
Hayley wouldn't hurt Elijah though. Both Klaus and Elijah were choking her while Mikael had his arms wrapped AROUND her while he gave his speech. The former is clearly harder to free yourself from when your in pain, gasping for air etc. And you also forget that Hayley's character development this season is her evolving into a "badass" who can protect herself. Evidently she wasn't nearly as feisty in those early instances as she is now.
And Klaus' latest fight with Marcel proves that you can be far stronger than someone but when you fool around you can still get hurt. It doesn't mean you are weaker than the one your toying with.
Was he trying to kill Hayley? Yes. But not right away. He like most vampires enjoys the chase. As I already pointed out above he had many chances to kill her but instead ranted and didn't deliver fatal blows.
Please tell me how you know that the other side crumbling weakens it's residents as much as werewolf venom? Just because Carina isn't the best doesn't mean everything she says is dismissible especially in regards to an episode she wrote. She answered what that fan said. Enzo wasn't on the other side as long to be weakened along with it. How is the other side disintegrating the same as a the veil being lifted? Different chain reactions occur. You evidently have no idea what your talking about.
Nice try(not really lol) but Mikael's rep is fine.
Edit: I hope that we finally get to see Klaus' werewolf form in the next episode.
Are you this much of a fanboy? She broke his hold on her, which shouldn't be possible considering his Original strength. Heck, in the most recent episode a bunch of witches were able to restrain her, and said witches are actually in the process of forcefully delivering her baby and killing it.
And it's not like she just broke his hold alone. She snapped his arm as well, and then beat him down with a metal pole. Awful, awful, awful and a bit more awful.
That is blitzing, mon ami. And when did she see that he was behind her? I'll tell you; the moment he reached the damned spot.
If he was just toying with her, then he did a pretty crap job of it, considering that it was her who ended up kicking his ass, instead of the other way round.
Wrong. Hayley couldn't hurt Elijah. Rebekah had a much greater amount of werewolf venom in her system than Elijah did, and still she was able to put up a fight against Klaus before he took her down. Heck in ep 21 alone Elijah, despite being savaged by those Guerrero werewolves, is still up and about and almost tore off Marcel's head just because he believed that the vampires had kidnapped Hayley.
Yes, they were choking her, and she had her hands around their wrists in each instance. Yet she couldn't pull them off. With Mikael however, she not only broke away from his grip, she also broke his goddamn arm. It appears that you're purposely ignoring this little tidbit in the hopes that by doing so, it'll magically disappear and make Mikael's humiliating ownage a little less humiliating, lol.
Lol at you comparing a 200 year old vampire to a f*cking pregnant werewolf. Marcel has never got restrained by people with human strength as well. Not to mention that Klaus ultimately did beat the crap out of him, and bit him.
Was he trying to kill Klaus back in 1919? Yes. But not right away. He likes to toy with his prey. But the crucial
Please tell me you have actual confirmation(apart from Carina's crap) that the OS crumbling actually weakens its denizens? No, she pulled off a retarded explanation with Enzo in order to avoid admitting that what she did in that episode is exactly the sort of crap which Caroline Dries does with Elena on TVD. Her words are completely negated by the fact that Lexi has proven superior to both Stefan and Damon every single time the veil to the OS has been dropped. The only difference between the OS crumbling the Veil being lifted is that in one the spirits trapped there get sucked into another dimension. In both however, the spirits can interact with the physical world, as seen with Enzo. Point remains that even a weakened Original is too strong for an untransformed werewolf or a non-original vampire. Which clearly wasn't the case with Mikael/Hayley.
This statement couldn't be further from the truth.
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Last edited by TheGodKiller02 on May 8th, 2014 at 04:44 AM
That is unfortunately not gonna happen. Maybe in season 2.
The fact that she is getting held down so easily should mean that her fight with Mikael was not a clear indication of his strength. Don't forget she was hit with a spell and is in labour on top of it all.
Ur saying this like I don't know it happened. I know she snapped his arm and hit him with a pole. I never denied that. It's the fact that he had a good minute to finish her off that means he was toying with her and could have killed her anytime he wanted and he was weakened.
" Welcome to my hell, stuck in an eternity of watching over that hideous creature my children call brother!
You're dead! How can I be here? [realizes where she is] Oh my god! NO! [thrashes around in his hold] Noo! The baby! The baby? [Hayley screams again]
That kid never had a chance! And as if your bloodline isn't filth enough, you poison it by merging it with Klaus'? [laughs manically] The deathless vermin, fancying himself a daddy? "
This is how much time he had to finish her of. He evidently was not serious. You avoiding this is just...
He had a chance to kill her when he was holding her, when she was weaponless, getting the wooden stake, and when she was in the middle of jumping of the stairs. Yet he didn't bank on any of this. Why?!
He was toying with her since he had so many chances to finish her off.
Hayley didn't want to hurt Elijah. Back then it wasn't even in her character either which you ignored of course. Rebekah had a whole day to dilute the poison lol. Werewolf venom doesn't activate immediately as shown multiple times lol so your Elijah-Marcel point is gone.
I am not purposely ignoring anything lol if I am addressing it in multiple points. She wouldn't/couldn't stop them lol. They weren't weakened while Mikael was. It wasn't in her character back then either.
Did I say they are around the same strength? No the point is that both times the stronger opponent was fooling around allowing the weaker to get hits in.
Which proves my point. Mikael hand many chances to kill Hayley and in character likes to toy with his prey.
Have we ever seen a denizen who was over they're as long as Mikael fight? No. Carina's words are fact.
It isn't contradicted by Lexi because one if mutual deterioration as the result of the OS crumbling and the other is the wall between the OS and human world being lifted which doesn't have an effect on the ghosts. How does a werwolf venom Elijah get weakened as much as Mikael being deteriorated along with the other side? You still have not explained that.
No, but her breaking both his grip and his arm is an indicator of strength. Lol, did you realize that you just made this showing all the more humiliating for Mikael by admitting that a spell had weakened her prior to that encounter?
Because that is exactly how you're acting. Pretending that it didn't happen. I am not even going to bother wading through that other bs you just posted about their dialogue, because I know it literally proves nothing for you.
Since when did non-serious demeanor mean automatic depowering for an Original? Or do you think that the amount of strength that Mikael can muster in his feeble old man's arms is directly proportional to how serious he is at any given time?
You bring about this holding back crap yet again without any proof to back it up. She broke his grip, broke his arm, dodged him when he blitzed past her on the staircase, and then brought him down to his knees with a simple stake to the heart. No Original has been as badly owned as he was here. Not even Kol(who was killed by a combo of a baby vampire and a baby hunter) or Rebekah(who is constantly getting owned by her brothers).
And in each chance he was thwarted physically by her. And she pulled off that crap without any sort of a special amp of any kind.
Correction: Hayley couldn't hurt Elijah. How many times are you going to repeat this lie?
So did Elijah brolio. What you're so boorishly missing is that Rebekah had a shit ton of the venom in her body, to the point that Genevieve even commented about it. You claiming that the 2 instances are even remotely similar to each other is laughable at best.
Tell that to Rebekah who was laid on her ass after the attack from the Bayou Wolves which saw her getting bit dozens of times. As I said before, quantity matters. Rebekah had far more wolf venom coursing through her veins than any vampire we've seen on this show.
Yes you are. You absolutely are. Not only that but you keep restating the same bullshit again and again. And then go about pretending as if you actually addressed any of the stuff which was pointed out to you in previous posts.
No, but you made an extremely faulty comparison by doing so. Thing is the strength difference between Klaus(half OV and half wolf) and Marcel(200 year old vamp) is vastly lesser than the difference between Mikael(oldes OV who is like an ancient Augustine) and Hayley(pregnant werewolf).
How many people have managed to so effectively fight back against him when he toyed with them. Not Klaus, Elijah or Rebekah, or a combination of all 3 of them in 1919. Because he was, for all intents and purposes, toying with them. And even then Elijah was doubtful if they could beat him by teaming up on him.
Yes we have. Lexi and Alaric are older than him, and both are superior to Stefan/Damon.
No they aren't, not when nothing shown on either show actually supports her bullshit.
It is. In both cases the OS shows signs of breaking down and denizens of the OS start appearing in the physical plane. I don't see any difference except for superficial ones. Because a hybrid-bitten Elijah actually demonstrated a physically weakened state. Unlike Mikael who seemed to be doing perfectly fine during his encounter with Hayley in the OS.
You wish. Unfortunately for you, Mikael's humiliation is canon, and is one of the worse showings for any all-powerful vampire character that has been seen on a tv show.
Which wouldn't matter if he wasn't putting up sufficient counter resistance to her twisting his arm. LOL I was talking about Genevieve zaping her which made it easier to manhandle her among other things.
Says that I am ignoring it
>addresses it threw OS argument this entire time
>addresses it threw mind set argument this entire time
LOL
You mean e same dialogue that shows Hayley being at his mercy for how lomg? LOL you have no counter as the fact is he didn't kill her right away which means he was not trying.
If he is not exerting enough strength to counter act her twisting his arm then yes his demeanor is a factor.
>broke a relaxed grip/arm
>LOLLLLLLLLL she stood in the same way on the staircase before and after he blitzed her
>which never would have happen if he took the multiple chances he had to kill her and wasn't weakened
What exactly did she thwart when she could have been killed a good 3 times by a weakened and non serious Mikael.
Uses Elijah as an example
>compares OS crumbling to werewolf venom
>thinks Hayley would want to hurt someone she has feelings for
uses Rebekah as an example
>compares someone who had the time span from one night to the next to dilute it to someone who at the time of attacking Hayley had only a few hours at most since it was still the afternoon
>again compares the OS crumbling to werewolf venom
Don't describe yourself lol
Your missing the point. If anyone even an original just stands there barely using any of their strength then they can easily get damaged. I don't know why you are bringing up ages for.
Mikael was only toying with Klaus. Quickly dispatching of Rebekah and Elijah is a testament to that. And when he was chasing them on the streets there is no indication that he was toying with them his show.
LOL what?
The other side and earth are parallel. Bonnie removed the wall that was perpetrating them. How is that a sign of it crumbling?
Meanwhile this time around the other side was attacked at it's source. As Liv stated by removing one thing it just slowly crumbles away.
It's like comparing someone removing the wall that seperates two rooms to removing the foundation of one and watching it crumble.
So your lexi and alaric points are worthless and it has not been contradicted yet.
It would, because an Original is supposed to be that f*cking strong.
What the f*ck does ending scene of last week's episode have to do with Mikael's humiliation?
Not sure what you're trying to say here. I think you need to work on your communication ability, as it's fairly lacking from what I've seen. Case in point; your inability to convey whether you meant Monique or Genevieve when you pointed out that Hayley has been weakened by a spell.
For about a few seconds at best before she went into a mama wolf fit and broke his f*cking arm. Yes, that's how long it took for him to go from predator to prey of an inferior creature.
Do you know anything about the Originals, bro? Like the fact that they were created to be individually superior to a trasnformed werewolf in terms of raw power? That Caroline alone had considerably greater strength than Mason? Or the fact that your average Original is far, far stronger than old vampires like Sage, Mary Porter, Rose, Lexi, Katherine, Marcel, Stefan and Damon and young hybrids like Tyler? Who themselves are well above the paygrade of younger vamps like Caroline, Elena and most of the New Orleans vamps who aren't even a century old?
So now that we've established a basic power hierarchy, let's recap:
Enhanced Originals(Alaric, Mikael and Klaus)>Normal Original(Elijah, Rebekah, Kol and Finn)>transformed werewolves>Old vampires>=young hybrids>young vampires>untransformed werewolves.
That's a pretty massive strength gap right there. Especially when one considers how Tyler didn't have the slightest bit of problem restraining her or draining her baby bump of blood, and there wasn't a damn thing she could do about it. Considering that Mikael was the Original vamp Cannibal, he should be a bazillion times stronger than Tyler, even at a base/relaxed state.
>Which should be beyond the ability of a hybrid or a vampire to break.
>She immediately jumped downwards after he blitzed past her.
>There is no onscreen proof that he was weakened. He did take every chance he had to kill her, but was thwarted and beaten down like weak old feeb.
She thwarted his attempts to physically harm her. Stop repeating the word weakened over and over again, when you don't even know the meaning of the term.
>Werewolf venom actually weakens Originals, as opposed to you unproven theory that a crumbling OS does the same to vampires.
>Hayley's other name happens to be "bitch". Or did you forget the nonchalant manner in which she betrayed Tyler and his 12 hybrids and later on pretended as if he was the one who backstabbed her?
Are you purposefully this much of an idiot? Or were you just born this way? Anyways, back to addressing your strawman:
>Elijah immediately recovered from the wolf venom after Eve saved Hayley. Rebekah on the other hand remained weakened to the point that she was barely able to walk throughout that entire episode.
>Considering how there is actual onscreen proof of one weakening a vampire, while the other has words being cited by an unreliable writer, I'd take my chances with wolf venom.
A very shitty "No YOU!" response. TBH, I didn't expect any better from you.
No I am not. I get the point fairly clearly. And the point is this; you're such a blind tvd/originals fanboy that you would make up ridiculous theories to defend horrible low showings of a character instead of simply accepting them and moving on.
He didn't quickly dispatch Elijah. He tried to convert him to the dark side first. When he was holding Elijah down, Elijah had to use his full body strength just to move Mikael's arm.
Still, the Klaus-encounter disproves your horrid assumption that toying with opponents somehow depowers Mikael.
In both cases a ghost can physically interact with the denizens of the real world. Enzo almost drowned Elena. Enzo overwhelmed Stefan. Vicki was the same baby vamp at the time of dying before she got sucked into Hell.
There is not only a lack of proof from onscreen sources regarding Carina's bullshit explanation, there is enough evidence to prove that the time period for which one is on the OS doesn't affect one's power. Because she clearly meant the time spent on the OS as being what weakened Mikael. Not the crumbling itself, but the time spent. Which is utter trash, as seen numerous times with Lexi.
Since you lack any screen evidence to prove this claim, I'll take this as a cloaked concession.
^Klaus was already equal to Elijah before becoming the hybrid. I don't get why he shouldn't be superior to him after retriggering his werewolf side, especially since every fisticuff between the 2 has ended with Elijah at his mercy.
Heck, even the actor playing Elijah admitted in an online interview that Klaus is superior and could take him in a fight.
I'm not saying Klaus isn't necessarily stronger or, at the very least, doesn't hold the advantage because of his greater durability (e.g. resistance to daggers, werewolf bites, etc.) and Elijah's loyalty.
I'm just saying that the two aren't far apart at all. Elijah has demonstrated the ability to hold his own against Klaus and even bring him to heel when sufficiently motivated.
Hybrids have never shown to be superior to vampires in strength or speed iirc. I don't think him becoming a hybrid made him stronger, I think Klaus is just a better fighter.
Don't really like the name but whatever. The witches vs originals fight scene was pretty good. Same three witches are dead now. Rebekah made a cameo and did us all a favor and took the baby away.
Three Originals were revived(Mikael, Esther, Finn) with a possible fourth since it was 3 witches who died.
Hybrids can compete with vampires well above their age range. Tyler biting Nadia, Julian/Tyler killing Stefan, Ray Sutton overpowering Damon etc.
No, he used underhanded tactics to slice his belt in a friendly swordfight/sparring match. If anything, the way Elijah handled Marcel's vamps indicates that he's the one with the superior skill, unlike Klaus who relies on raw power to get the job done.
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Last edited by TheGodKiller02 on May 15th, 2014 at 04:25 AM
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May 1st, 2014 09:43 PM
She had enough strength to actually overpower him and beat him down.
Yet she couldn't do to them what she did to Mike the pussy Tyke. 
