Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
quote: (post ) Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not mad at you for calling out the obvious, SM. You did it before in a joking manner, and I didn't get mad. I got annoyed this time because instead of addressing my arguments, you attacked my username and the character I was arguing for, which was obvious from the beginning of our argument, but all of a sudden you chose a particular time to point out the obvious?
I've debated on a lot of non-Sidious related topics: Krayt vs Dooku, Kun vs Vader, Revan vs Maul, Dooku vs Kun (those off top of my head). I can't help it that you guys only notice my Sidious arguments. But yeah, I argue more for Sidious than I do any other character. If you or anyone else has a problem with it, then that's your guy's issues, not mine. All I can say, is ignore me. Don't start getting deep in a debate with me, and the suddenly decide to point out the obvious when you can't address my argument, which is exactly what you did, and then turned around and said it was because I didn't address your arguments.
As for the 66, I put that number because Sidious issued order 66.
(TBH, I don't know why I'm even explaining myself to you, but oh well)
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:02 AM
The_Tempest
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States
Oh, who cares what someone's user name is? Deriding one's arguments for it is a textbook case of an ad hominem fallacy: something Nai actually acknowledged back in January or so.
Doesn't matter who you like or what your user name is, what matters is the strength of your arguments.
Nov 7th, 2013 03:02 AM
Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
quote: (post ) Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh, who cares what someone's user name is? Deriding one's arguments for it is a textbook case of an ad hominem fallacy: something Nai actually acknowledged back in January or so.
Doesn't matter who you like or what your user name is, what matters is the strength of your arguments.
Tempests suck.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:04 AM
The_Tempest
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States
Is that an anagram for The_Tempest is awesome?
Nov 7th, 2013 03:08 AM
Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End
No youd need an a for that.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:09 AM
The_Tempest
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States
Who are you, an anagramologist?
Nov 7th, 2013 03:09 AM
Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
No, he's British. We assume he is better at the language than us by default.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:10 AM
Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End
You'd also need a w.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:12 AM
Dominis
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2008
Location: Physically nowhere.....
quote: (post ) Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh, who cares what someone's user name is? Deriding one's arguments for it is a textbook case of an ad hominem fallacy: something Nai actually acknowledged back in January or so.
Doesn't matter who you like or what your user name is, what matters is the strength of your arguments.
Amen.
But I honestly believe Nai has a hatred for Sidious. I don't think SM actually hates Sidious, I think he's mad because Sidious has statements and feats that suggest he is the most powerful sith of all time, and it annoys him.
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"The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Nov 7th, 2013 03:17 AM
Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
quote: (post ) Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Amen.
But I honestly believe Nai has a hatred for Sidious. I don't think SM actually hates Sidious, I think he's mad because Sidious has statements and feats that suggest he is the most powerful sith of all time, and it annoys him.
If you read anything I typed lately, you'd know that wasn't true.
But that would involve you doing two things:
1. Reading
2. Comprehending.
So I won't hold my breath.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:21 AM
The_Tempest
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States
I don't know what Nai's deal is beyond a deep-seated personal hatred for all things Gideon. Don't know and, after all these years, don't really care.
The Moose's hostility to the Dark Lord stems from his real-world fascination with history. Historians tend to romanticize bygone eras and all they entail. Hence the preference for chronologically older stories than current ones.
Alas, whilst we all may find the ancient Sparta really cool, modern-day USA would effortlessly and utterly wreck them in a fight.
Suffice it to say that the Moose's conversion to the Emperor's court has been scheduled by yours truly. It's only a matter of time.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:23 AM
Dominis
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2008
Location: Physically nowhere.....
@SM
As with Nai, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit it.
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"The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis
Nov 7th, 2013 03:23 AM
Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
quote: (post ) Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As with Nai, of course I wouldn't expect you to admit it.
You said once:
quote: You ignored a source I've provided--a source that says Yoda was unable to beat Sidious because Sidious proved to powerful to defeat-- which supports my interpretation of the fight more than yours.
^ This was a lie on your part. You clung to statements which favored your interpretation, regardless of context, instead of debating the canon material itself. You relied on reference works and interview questions of dubious utility to combat detailed scans, arguments, and application of reason.
This is known as confirmation bias . Here's an image to help you remember:
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You also said:
quote: I asked you to tell me how Yoda would have been able to defeat Sidious, and you couldn't answer. Instead you chose to point out my username and the character I mainly argue for than to address my argument.
^ This is also a lie. I replied tho Darth Power regarding the same issue several pages ago:
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This has been addressed though. Yoda was at the very bottom of the senate chamber, he was for the first time saberless and far from his opponent. He would have to climb up, possibly dodging anything Sidious threw at him, then get in close and what? Dropkick Sidious? And we see immediately after this that troopers are on the way. Yoda's gambit was killing Sidious quickly, before he would be overcome. He was unable to do this due to circumstance. If they had not risen in the central pod into the senate chamber, the fight may have ended differently and more definitively, but applying the "he stopped fighting, ergo he could never beat him" is unreasonable. The situation dictated that his advantage was gone.
No one's saying Yoda is lightyears ahead of Sidious; both are top tier. What we're saying is that Yoda has an edge on Sidious in both departments, and the movie makes it quite clear that fortune and good tactical setting saved Sidious. I don't think it's a coincidence that the pod began rising; Sidious likely set that into motion in order to afford himself an escape route or high ground, because he knew that on even ground, Yoda was too much for him to handle.
Your assertion - that Yoda was unable to defeat Sidious from his position of situational disadvantage, assumes that victory is impossible in all circumstances. This is unreasonable'; the opposition's argument clearly states that in a neutral setting, Yoda had the edge and even with circumstances heavily favoring Sidious, the latter barely survived.
quote: (post ) Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Also, I went over a lot of this with Nai. I'd appreciate if you read my argument and consider it just like I will get to your link later. Fair is fair.
^ Here's where you blew off reading my scans argument, which predates this thread by years , and tell me to read your long winded argument with Nai. There's no point at doing this because:
I directly linked you to every relevant post, and it took me some time to locate the original thread in the first place. Your amount of laziness in this case is unwarranted and demonstrated an unwillingness to meet me halfway. I shouldn't be given the burden to search 10+ pages for everything you have said that Nai has systematically refuted, while I hand you my argument wrapped in tinfoil and you ignore it altogether.
quote: (post ) Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And to make myself more clear:
What I mean is, how can we determine which is more impressive: Sidious easily throwing multiple senate pods while, at the same time, holding up other pods in mid air, while in a better position; or, Yoda requiring a lot of concentration/seemingly struggling to catch and redirect just one, while in a worse position? How do we determine which is more impressive? Yes, I acknowledge that Sidious was in a better position, and thus threw many senate pods with ease, while Yoda was in a worse position, and was thus more hard pressed to catch and redirect just one. How can we determine which is more impressive unless we can come up with some math formula or something? Yoda couldn't be more impressive in that he threw one against gravity, seeing as Sidious hurled three over his head at the same time with ease. So the thing that made it harder for Yoda had to be catching it while being in a worse position.
^ This was addressed already. You drop debating points you can't handle, and then attack something else, ignoring if it's already been covered.
Again, I handed you my entire debate - my entire analysis of the fight, each post itemized. You waved your hand and kept on posting smaller posts of little consequence and no real thought.
Then, several pages later, you post this:
quote: (post ) Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
This thread has reached a whole new level of reaching and silliness.
Yes, Yoda is quite a bit superior to Sidious, which is why he was never knocked unconscious. Which is why he cut Sidious to pieces while Sidious was at a disadvantage on the podium during their saber duel. Which is why Sidious never gained the high ground before Yoda managed to, and never nearly overwhelmed Yoda with a bunch of pods, causing him to lose his balance, nope, none of that ever happened. Which is why Sidious' lightning never disarmed Yoda. Which is why Yoda's final attack (redirected lightning ball) blasted Sidious to pieces, instead of just blasting them both apart and thus ending the fight in a stalemate.
Also, the Comics Companion which states that Sidious was too powerful for Yoda to defeat, was clearly wrong. If Yoda wasn't thrown several stories from the final move, he would have finished Sidious, which is why he was able to...finished him before that? Now I'm confused.
quote: (post ) Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As for Sidious choosing to jump out of the way of the pod instead of catching it, given his previous handling of the pods, then logically he could have catched it. Just like Yoda, for some reason, chose not to absorb Sidious' first lightning attack (only attempting to block it with one hand), but given that he was able to later on in the fight, then logically he was capable of absorbing the first attack.
To which you got a well-deserved:
quote: (post ) Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I don't think anyone expects you to meet them halfway, Sidious66. Your username and five years of experience kind of inhibits this expectation.
And I went rather easy on you. It was your temper-tantrum after that basically gave me the greenlight to lose all respect for you. Which just makes my job easier, I guess. But don't play the moral high ground. Your pettiness in handling the debate got you called out for your bias, and then you stomped your feet and called the opposition names and felt justified. That's grade school crap there. Grow a pair.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:51 AM
The_Tempest
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States
I think he might have been joking.
Nov 7th, 2013 03:52 AM
Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
quote: (post ) Originally posted by The_Tempest
I think he might have been joking.
No, his butthurt is too genuine. He can't let it go. I've seen women more forgiving.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:55 AM
Nephthys
The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Registered: Dec 2007
Location: The End
He can't let it go?
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:59 AM
The_Tempest
Senior Member
Registered: Sep 2012
Location: United States
Women? Forgive?
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:59 AM
Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
quote: (post ) Originally posted by The_Tempest
Women? Forgive?
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I lol'd.
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Nov 7th, 2013 03:59 AM
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Immortal Emperor
Registered: Aug 2013
Location: The Eternal Throne
yeah, Neph kinda has a point...
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”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Nov 7th, 2013 03:59 AM
Stealth Moose
Umbrella Elite
Registered: Apr 2011
Location: In Ur Raccoon City
quote: (post ) Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
yeah, Neph kinda has a point...
Neph always kind of has a point. He's like the Heart of Captain KMC Planet.
But I always brutally destroy those who annoy me, as a way of establishing you all as my bitches debating without undue restrictions.
Also, my Flame Warrior is Big Dog. I used to have some Me Toos, but they all left/went back to rehab/stopped returning my drunken phone calls.
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Nov 7th, 2013 04:03 AM
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