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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Star Wars Versus Forum » The Greatest Foe the darkness had ever known...


The Greatest Foe the darkness had ever known...
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Nephthys
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Registered: Dec 2007
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Retcon.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 05:56 PM
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Intrepid37
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lol


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 05:57 PM
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ares834
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It has been retconned though.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 06:05 PM
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Nephthys
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Registered: Dec 2007
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I believe the Ones have been named as the most powerful beings in the Star Wars galaxy.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 06:09 PM
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SIDIOUS 66
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Registered: Sep 2008
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If I'm not mistaken, Tempest is referring to the argument that Sidious may not have dropped his Saber "from the fear of falling" if the fight was on even ground. That's the argument Arhael began, which you seem to have adopted since.

Let's get one thing straight shall we, I've never claimed Dooku is either Yoda or Sidious's equal. I used to say Dooku and Sidious may be relatively on par in a Pure Fencing Match Up Only, but I don't believe that anymore after the Maul/Opress fight.

Besides I probably only interjected when you say things like the difference between them is "MASSIVE" or "HUGE", which AOTC doesn't seem to show. You can make all the excuses you want for that, but fact is Dooku can put up a fight against Yoda, so probably can against Sidious as well.

Dooku is below them both, but the difference isn't as HUGE as you tend to make out.





You were bitching saying Arhael is another Nai who will never admit he's wrong. And you obviously thought he was wrong the majority of the time.

Oh stop being oversensitive. I just said stop bitching, it's not like your the epitome of how a debator should be around here.



If Tempest was referring to my latest argument on the matter, well I didn't even mention the script. It seems as if he brought the script up to back the argument up. So you might be mistaken. And how did I adopt the argument from Arhael when I debated it with you before he even became a member here, I believe?

And comparing Yoda's duel with Dooku to the way Sidious would handle him is retarded. Yoda wasn't trying his hardest, otherwise he wouldn't have held back on attacking Dooku with the force. Yoda also had an attachment for Dooku, something Sidious doesn't share. Sidious is quite a bit faster than Dooku, far more powerful, far stronger, more skilled, etc. That's a fact, and I brought up many feats to prove it. Dooku might not be a non-factor like Fisto and others, but he is definitely not close to Sidious in combat. But I'm not going over this again with someone who has absolutely no grasp of context.

I thought Arhael was wrong in the majority of our debates, otherwise I wouldn't have debated with him, WTF? lol. But what does that have to do with anything? It doesn't change the fact that he is better than you at debating. And I also never claimed to be the "epitome" of how a debater should be around here, but I can say for sure that I don't constantly use double standards in my debates like you do. And again, when was I bitching about anyone being a better debater than myself?

As I said, don't get offensive, I was just stating a fact about you.


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 06:13 PM
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Intrepid37
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damn rivalry lol


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Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 06:16 PM
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If Tempest was referring to my latest argument on the matter, well I didn't even mention the script. It seems as if he brought the script up to back the argument up. So you might be mistaken. And how did I adopt the argument from Arhael when I debated it with you before he even became a member here, I believe?


The case you brought up before Arhael's time wasn't nearly as convincing as the one you adopoted from him.

Hey there's no shame in adopting arguments. All I did was point out to Tempest that the "strong case" he was referring to was really made strong by Arhael.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And comparing Yoda's duel with Dooku to the way Sidious would handle him is retarded. Yoda wasn't trying his hardest, otherwise he wouldn't have held back on attacking Dooku with the force. Yoda also had an attachment for Dooku, something Sidious doesn't share. Sidious is quite a bit faster than Dooku, far more powerful, far stronger, more skilled, etc. That's a fact, and I brought up many feats to prove it. Dooku might not be a non-factor like Fisto and others, but he is definitely not close to Sidious in combat. But I'm not going over this again with someone who has absolutely no grasp of context.


There is a definite gap between Sidious and Dooku. But it's not as HUGE as you would like to believe. Dooku would put up a half decent fight before he lost. His fights against Yoda and Mace Windu prove that.

And Lol at you being the one to lecture anyone on context.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It doesn't change the fact that he is better than you at debating.


LOL Yes he is. And MILES better than you.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And I also never claimed to be the "epitome" of how a debater should be around here, but I can say for sure that I don't constantly use double standards in my debates like you do.


No you just come out with excuse upon excuse for the fights you don't like.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And again, when was I bitching about anyone being a better debater than myself?


Reading comprehension is your friend.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
As I said, don't get offensive, I was just stating a fact about you.


LOL By getting Offensive. That's brilliant. And expected from you.




quote: (post)
Originally posted by Intrepid37
damn rivalry lol


Welcome to Classic KMC.

Last edited by Darth Thor on Sep 5th, 2013 at 06:56 PM

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 06:53 PM
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SIDIOUS 66
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: Physically nowhere.....


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The case you brought up before Arhael's time wasn't nearly as convincing as the one you adopoted from him.

Hey there's no shame in adopting arguments. All I did was point out to Tempest that the "strong case" he was referring to was really made strong by Arhael.



There is a definite gap between Sidious and Dooku. But it's not as HUGE as you would like to believe. Dooku would put up a half decent fight before he lost. His fights against Yoda and Mace Windu prove that.

And Lol at you being the one to lecture anyone on context.



LOL Yes he is. And MILES better than you.



No you just come out with excuse upon excuse for the fights you don't like.




Reading comprehension is your friend.



LOL By getting Offensive. That's brilliant. And expected from you.






Welcome to Classic KMC.



Gosh, you're dense. How can I adopt an argument from someone I didn't even know exists? Just because he convinced you better than I did, doesn't mean I adopted the argument from him. When Arhael provided the script, all it did was back up an argument I already made, nothing more.

Dooku's fights with Windu and Yoda were both contextually different than Sidious' fights with them. Try again.

By your logic, Vizsla and Barriss are close to Maul and Dooku. Ignoring the context of Anakin's fight with Barriss, I guess we can conclude that she is more powerful than Dooku, or at least his equal. No excuses, right? Oh, no, but you made plenty of excuses for those fights. See what I mean by double standards?


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"The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 07:07 PM
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S_W_LeGenD
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: Earth


 

Re: The Greatest Foe the darkness had ever known...

Flat open terrain makes this interesting.

1. Yellow
2. Yellow
3. Red
4. Yellow
5. Yellow
Boss: Red

Legend:-

Yellow = Tough
Red = Defeat

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 07:18 PM
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KuRuPT Thanosi
Senior Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: United States


 

There is no way ROTJ Sids was above ROTS Sids... It was noted that Sids body was badly decaying and limited by the time of ROTJ... he was having to eradicated planets just to replenish his life force and maintain the body. In ROTS he wasn't near that level of decay... To say nothing of the fact that in ROTS and previous in the Clone wars he engaged in battles... by hte time of ROTJ.. I can't even think of any battles he had that he'd be battle ready like ROTS

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 07:19 PM
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Darth Thor
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Gosh, you're dense. How can I adopt an argument from someone I didn't even know exists? Just because he convinced you better than I did, doesn't mean I adopted the argument from him. When Arhael provided the script, all it did was back up an argument I already made, nothing more.


Oh please you calling me dense is like a Gorilla calling you dense.

You've been making his exact case recently. You didn't used to. You just used to come out with crap like "Sidious couldn't use his full agility there."

Face it, you copied his argument despite your constant bitching of him.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Dooku's fights with Windu and Yoda were both contextually different than Sidious' fights with them. Try again.



Yes the context being the Jedi had to stop Dooku to stop an all out war Galaxy Wide War.

Try again.

Whatever feelings Yoda had for Dooku, would not compare to the feelings Kenobi had for Skywalker. The difference being Kenobi stopped Skywalker, despite Skywalker being more powerful than him. So Yoda, The Grand Master of the Jedi Order, really has no excuse not to STOMP Dooku if he could.

As for Mace, he was willing to give his life to take out Dooku when they fought in Obsession. But they fought completely evenly.

Not to mention the countless statements putting Mace and Dooku on par.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
By your logic, Vizsla and Barriss are close to Maul and Dooku. Ignoring the context of Anakin's fight with Barriss, I guess we can conclude that she is more powerful than Dooku, or at least his equal. No excuses, right? Oh, no, but you made plenty of excuses for those fights. See what I mean by double standards?


LOL What?

When have I made an excuse for Dark Side Barriss giving Skywalker a fight? She can give him a fight, good for her. She still got whooped and was constantly on the run from him. The official site makes it clear she was no match for him.

And Viszla gave Maul a fight too, great. Let's just ignore the canon that states Viszla was hopelessly outmatched for a second, it still doesn't matter considering Jango Fett has stalemated AOTC Kenobi and random Death Watch assassins have given TCW Kenobi good fights. Whilst being a warrior race, Viszla should be the best combatant of them all.


The difference is I don't just make up my own BS contexts, like "Oh I don't think Mace or Yoda would hurt Dooku, not even to stop a Galaxy Wide Conflict" LOL LOL

That's your issue. You have no idea what context is. You just make your own when a fight doesn't go the way you would like. Like with Yoda vs Dooku, Mace vs Dooku, Sidious vs Maul/Opress e.t.c. e.t.c.

Whilst I apply context where relevant: The reason for fighting, the fights fought before hand, the environment, and the state of mind of the combatants. So CONSISTENT showings are important to look at. But don't worry that's all pretty much beyond you.

Last edited by Darth Thor on Sep 5th, 2013 at 07:44 PM

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 07:40 PM
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SIDIOUS 66
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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: Physically nowhere.....


 

Damn, you're killing me, DP. laughing

That's basically what the argument was about: Sidious not having much room to use his full agility, whereas Yoda could. The script just backed my argument up even further. Palpatine lost balance and dropped his saber because of his limitations on the platform. Fighting on even ground, there would be no edge for Sidious to almost fall over, as his size wouldn't limit him the way it did on the platform. Again, how did I adopt that argument from Arhael? You just admitted that I used the argument before Arhael. Why are you contradicting yourself? What was the difference in me and Arhael's argument?

So you agree that Barriss is more powerful than Dooku, considering that Dooku got demolished in a matter of seconds after Anakin was visually pissed off, whereas Anakin was still struggling with Barriss even after he was visually pissed off? You did make the argument saying Anakin didn't want to hurt her. You also made the argument that Maul was holding back because he wanted to gain the other mandalorian's respect. You don't ignore context of fights when it's convenient for characters you favor, but you do when it's not convenient. Double standards.

And hey, I didn't say it was a smart move for Yoda to hold back against Dooku, but he clearly did, otherwise he wouldn't have held back on using the force when he had plenty of opportunities to. I mean, he didn't hold back on using the force against Sidious when he had the opportunity. And obviously the fate of the galaxy wasn't Yoda's first priority, otherwise he would have finished Dooku off instead of saving Obi Wan and Anakin. Try again.

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me when I was bitching about someone being a better debater than myself. Reading comprehension is my friend, whereas it's obviously your enemy. Making my irritation clear about others not admitting when they are wrong is not bitching about people being better debaters. lol

I'm bored, so continue to entertain me with more stupidity.


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Last edited by SIDIOUS 66 on Sep 5th, 2013 at 08:15 PM

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 08:13 PM
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Master Han
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^surprising stance. I thought you were more of a Yoda fan.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 08:15 PM
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SIDIOUS 66
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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: Physically nowhere.....


 

I am. My username is to throw people off.


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Last edited by SIDIOUS 66 on Sep 5th, 2013 at 08:24 PM

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 08:20 PM
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KuRuPT Thanosi
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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Damn, you're killing me, DP. laughing

That's basically what the argument was about : Sidious not having much room to use his full agility, whereas Yoda could. The script just backed my argument up even further. Palpatine lost balance and dropped his saber because of his limitations on the platform. Fighting on even ground, there would be no edge for Sidious to almost fall over, as his size wouldn't limit him the way it did on the platform. Again, how did I adopt that argument from Arhael? You just admitted that I used the argument before Arhael. Why are you contradicting yourself? What was the difference in me and Arhael's argument?

So you agree that Barriss is more powerful than Dooku, considering that Dooku got demolished in a matter of seconds after Anakin was visually pissed off, whereas Anakin was still struggling with Barriss even after he was visually pissed off? You did make the argument saying Anakin didn't want to hurt her. You also made the argument that Maul was holding back because he wanted to gain the other mandalorian's respect. You don't ignore context of fights when it's convenient for characters you favor, but you do when it's not convenient. Double standards.

And hey, I didn't say it was a smart move for Yoda to hold back against Dooku, but he clearly did, otherwise he wouldn't have held back on using the force when he had plenty of opportunities to. I mean, he didn't hold back on using the force against Sidious when he had the opportunity. And obviously the fate of the galaxy wasn't Yoda's first priority, otherwise he would have finished Dooku off instead of saving Obi Wan and Anakin. Try again.

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me when I was bitching about someone being a better debater than myself. Reading comprehension is my friend, whereas it's obviously your enemy. Making my irritation clear about others not admitting when they are wrong is not bitching about people being better debaters. lol

I'm bored, so continue to entertain me with more stupidity.


actually the script doesnt' back up the claim that the only reason sids lost his saber was because he was off balance. He was off balance because of Yoda's furious ATTACX. He didn't just slip on a wet senate pod. Yoda attack caused him to do so. Lucas own script also notes that Yoda DISARMS him in saber combat. Any notion otherwise taking credit away from yoda disarming sids is non canon.

BTW Sidious I was spot on when I said you rode the coattails of others which you admit. Just because you spin it to ohhhh well me and Gideon just happened to agree on a lot of things and he had more sources than me to cite... is exactly riding he coattails of others. Glad you concede that point.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 08:41 PM
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Damn, you're killing me, DP. laughing


Of course I am.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That's basically what the argument was about : Sidious not having much room to use his full agility, whereas Yoda could.



That was your original unconvincing version of the argumet.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The script just backed my argument up even further. Palpatine lost balance and dropped his saber because of his limitations on the platform. Fighting on even ground, there would be no edge for Sidious to almost fall over, as his size wouldn't limit him the way it did on the platform. Again, how did I adopt that argument from Arhael? You just admitted that I used the argument before Arhael. Why are you contradicting yourself? What was the difference in me and Arhael's argument?


This is the more along the lines of what Arhael proposed. He strengthened your argument about 100 times. You know after you copied it and are now even trying to take credit for it. But anyone who knows you knows your not smart enough to come up with that.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So you agree that Barriss is more powerful than Dooku, considering that Dooku got demolished in a matter of seconds after Anakin was visually pissed off, whereas Anakin was still struggling with Barriss even after he was visually pissed off?


What the f***? Dooku fought off Anakin and Kenobi and almost took them both out.

And in all the fights before that Skywalker never once managed to defeat Dooku.

How in the World of SW is that comparable to Barriss being no match for Skywalker the one time they fought?!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You did make the argument saying Anakin didn't want to hurt her.


Nah. But he did need her to save Ashoka. Not sure how much of a difference that made to the fight, if any.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You also made the argument that Maul was holding back because he wanted to gain the other mandalorian's respect.


He held back on his Force Powers. Which we know because 1) He never used them and 2) We see his equal/inferior Opress casually TK Death Watch warriors around - Consistency.

Like I said, Context includes ON Screen Reasons given for a fight. Like "Destroy the Sith we Must" obviously means no holding back. But "How do I get Viszla's men to follow me" means - Let's think about how we're going to go about this.

So we were FLAT OUT given the CONTEXT of that fight ON SCREEN. The reason for it wasn't just to outright murder Viszla, but to win over his warriors.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You don't ignore context of fights when it's convenient for characters you favor, but you do when it's not convenient. Double standards.


No I don't ignore context given to us and stated on screen.

I ignore your BS Context which you make up every time you don't like the way a fight went like:

Yoda held back against Dooku - Because I say so LOL

Mace held back against Dooku - Because I say so LOL

Sidious was fighting at 1/2 speed against Maul/Opress - Because I say so LOL


quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And hey, I didn't say it was a smart move for Yoda to hold back against Dooku, but he clearly did, otherwise he wouldn't have held back on using the force when he had plenty of opportunities to. I mean, he didn't hold back on using the force against Sidious when he had the opportunity. And obviously the fate of the galaxy wasn't Yoda's first priority, otherwise he would have finished Dooku off instead of saving Obi Wan and Anakin. Try again.


He did fight harder against Sidious, no doubt about that, that was literally about the fate of the Galaxy and the Jedi. Plus he was pushed harder by Sidious's power. But he was trying to stop Dooku.

And he even considered his fight with him good enough to not need to spar for a while after that- "Schism."

Bottom line- If Yoda could have stomped Dooku with ease- He would have.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And I'm still waiting for you to tell me when I was bitching about someone being a better debater than myself. Reading comprehension is my friend, whereas it's obviously your enemy. Making my irritation clear about others not admitting when they are wrong is not bitching about people being better debaters. lol

I'm bored, so continue to entertain me with more stupidity.


Reading comprehension is your friend. But clearly you ignoring your friend.

Quote me where I said you were bitching about someone being a better debator than you. Then we will find out whose more stupid out of me and you.

Last edited by Darth Thor on Sep 5th, 2013 at 09:18 PM

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 09:14 PM
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SIDIOUS 66
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: Physically nowhere.....


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
actually the script doesnt' back up the claim that the only reason sids lost his saber was because he was off balance. He was off balance because of Yoda's furious ATTACX. He didn't just slip on a wet senate pod. Yoda attack caused him to do so. Lucas own script also notes that Yoda DISARMS him in saber combat. Any notion otherwise taking credit away from yoda disarming sids is non canon.



Except on even ground, Sidious would have room to give ground or leap away from Yoda's assault, whereas he couldn't on the platform because he was at risk of falling over the edge, which is, according to the script, how Sidious dropped his saber. What's hard to get about that?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
BTW Sidious I was spot on when I said you rode the coattails of others which you admit. Just because you spin it to ohhhh well me and Gideon just happened to agree on a lot of things and he had more sources than me to cite... is exactly riding he coattails of others. Glad you concede that point.



Yes, if I don't have a source and he does, I'd rather ask him for it than to expect others to take my word for it, dumbass. That's riding his coattail? lol. You don't even know what that means.

BTW, serious question, did you make it passed the second grade?


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"The power of the dark side is an illness no true Sith would wish to be cured of" -Darth Plagueis

Last edited by SIDIOUS 66 on Sep 5th, 2013 at 09:17 PM

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 09:14 PM
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Darth Thor
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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Asgard


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66


BTW, serious question, did you make it passed the second grade?


This is quite funny coming from the guy who a few years ago was claiming Mace could be less Powerful than both Sidious and Yoda and still be the SECOND most powerful person in the Galaxy LOL LOL You have given me some laughs over the years SIDIOUS 66!

So serious question, did you actually make it past Second Grade in the end? Because you were clearly stuck there for a while, not being able to count yet.



Oh and this is what I said:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER


And stop bitching about people who were clearly better debators than you.



And this is what you're asking me:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

And I'm still waiting for you to tell me when I was bitching about someone being a better debater than myself.



The underlined part is the difference between what I said and what you're claiming I said.

Clearly maths wasn't your only weak point in school.

Last edited by Darth Thor on Sep 5th, 2013 at 09:29 PM

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 09:25 PM
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Master Han
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
BTW, serious question, did you make it passed the second grade?


*past.

They teach you that in 2nd grade.

Just saying.

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 09:28 PM
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Darth Thor
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^ LOL

Old Post Sep 5th, 2013 09:30 PM
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